Myspace.com Blogs

The legendary Knights Templar were a military, monastic order with their main centre at Bernard de Clairvaux's base in the east of France, and with Jerusalem as an important pole.
          For some centuries the Knights Templar had an amazing cultural and large-scale financial influence in Europe. It is believed that they had attained a special knowledge of biblical and ancient Oriental traditions, from Egypt - and from Moses.
          However, they suddenly disappeared from history. Later, parts of the old tradition were observed still to be in existence inside other societies and brotherhoods. Concerning their secret knowledge and mysteries of antiquity - cf. the entire article: "The Knights Templar's Knowledge from Egypt - and Moses", by Ove von Spaeth, writer, historian, independent researcher, - (www.moses-egypt.net)   http://www.ovs.thirax.dk/Artikel-X/Ove2/index-uk.htm

Myspace.com Blogs, April 1, 2007 - Sunday - http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=9999353&blogID=248266773   -  (1.Apr.2007)

Holisticum teaching is not religious or advocating any specific religious direction within the established religions or other alternative methods, theories or ways of thinking.

          The principles of Holisticum teaching is: the basic values of the comprehensive view. The cosmic principle - the road to all recognitions. Jacob Noerkov Friis says, "... Do not look for the truth - it is already here - ". Key subjects:  the centre of the source.  The movement of consciousness through experiences of dimensions and frequencies.  The world mirror opens up and becomes an integrated part of us, and we can react to this which IS.

Links to:  writers & artists
www.holisticum.dk/component/option,com_weblinks/catid,18/Itemid,77/
          Galleri Herand, Layout & Photographer  =  www.herand.dk
          Ulla Runchel, Writer, Futurist  =  www.forvandlingskuglen.webbyen.dk
          Birgitte & Per Fich, Spiritual picture art  =  www.birgittefich.dk
          Ove von Spaeth, Writer, Researcher  =  www.moses-egypt.net

Jacob Noerkov Friis, founder and responsible for Holisticum, - The House Innanna, Nordre Frihavnsgade 17 D, 2100 Copenhagen Ö, - www.holisticum.dk/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1  -  (Dec.2007)

Your new Freud-Moses project is fabulous. I have read your text with pleasure and benefit, and I fully understand that it had to be published. It is eminent, and you deal with something extremely exciting and fascinating - of interest to all reflecting people.
          The subjects ARE very important and the material of prime interest. Unique! Stimulation begins with the first word, and your subject is fluid nitro-glycerine to the brain of an inquisitive reader. Bravo. Your interdisciplinary comprehension is your mark and your force. Personally, I am so infatuated with the proto-religious picture that our lives are an inner dream of the Almighty!

Bjorn Andersen, B.A. and Senior Lecturer in Literary criticism and Linguistic science at Copenhagen University, Journalist DJF, former Programme Editor at the Danish National Television - biorn@mail.dk -  (25.Nov.2007)

I have just read your 15 pages text concerning:  Nostradamus - and the New Millennium ..!! and I can relate all what has been written about... and I just want to say that mankind - to be most directly - is now in deep water...    hi, thomas;

thomas, -  6. March 2008 18:23 - thomas_1577@hotmail.com  -  (6.Mar.2008)

(ed. note for moses-egypt.net:)  Ove von Spaeth's article: "Nostradamus - and the New Millennium" is also found via Zenith-files article base or www.thirax.dk. Thomas has read it and reflects somewhat 'pessisimistic'. - For orientation: Ove von Spaeth's analysis is stating, on the contrary, the logics in disarming some alleged 'doomsday'.

Only a few centuries ago - and as far back as all previous societies - knowledge was achieved through cultic initiation by making a promise on silence. Knowledge was reserved for the initiated.

          The key word is secret knowledge ... Doctors, philosophers, architects, scientists - all had taken an oath of silence - thus following an ancient tradition. Because this is how it was also in ancient Greece, in the Pythagorean society, and in ancient Egypt for instance. In fact this is how it has always been. Therefore - and exactly therefore - do we know so little about the actual knowledge and doing of our ancestors.

          Although often set aside, this knowledge about essential circumstances behind our civilisation has nevertheless not disappeared from this world - and is thus an obvious task for a historian to disclose.
          In a new documentary detective novel by Erling Haagensen, "Murder of the Word" (Documentas Publishers, 2008), the principal character, i.e. a female historian in research of the knights templar in Jerusalem, makes an extended trip and goes to Egypt in order to investigate some original traces. This because of her inspiration by reading Ove von Spaeth's book-series about the enigmatic Moses, who among other things possessed a special knowledge from high initiations in mysteries of ancient Egypt.

http://www.merling.dk, - "Secret Knowledge", website of Erling Haagensen, writer and film director - (March,2008)

Erling Haagensen’s have also issued "The Treasure of the Knights Templar" and “The Round Churches of Bornholm"; – and, together with Henry Lincoln: "The Templars’ Secret Island" - the magnificent story which has created the background for the Da Vincy Mystery.

Erling Haagensen is co-founder of New Science Limited - with its purpose of supporting fundamental scientific research by cutting across disciplinary boundaries - to contribute to a necessary scientific re-examination of existing paradigms, thus including aiming to enhance the common knowledge and the educational level of society, cf. http://www.new-science.co.uk

TIME IS ENERGY - WHICH IS CONSTANT.
Time works for all of us - we know this as a nice phrase, but in reality is it our own process of age, which develops our conduct and the patterns we develop. Then time is latent present without movement. It is the All, which moves - together with YOU and your thoughts in the now, constantly.
          This is the ETERNAL LIFE being transformed OUTSIDE TIME in a quiet, floating stream, which is in an eternal transformation fushioned with your conscience. This conscience of yours is then used as a guide when your thoughts receives the conscience’s streams of pictures and new info to the brain and yourself. This, while yours cells vibrate in measure with the pulse of the universe, and with the TIME as a non-moving spectator.
          TIME IS NOT MOVABLE - IT IS US, AND THE MASS AND MATERIA, BEING EXPANDING THE MASS OF THE MATERIA IN VACUUM.
(Ulla Runchel's entire article was tranlated Feb.2006 by Ove von Spaeth www.moses-egypt.net)

Ulla Runchel, writer, futurist, - www.123hjemmeside.dk/happystarlight/11453480

Moses.   "The Bible tells us that Moses "was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians, and was mighty in words and in deeds". In fact, he had performed great deeds of merit and passed many tests in previous lifetimes His soul was chosen for the mission because he had proven himself. Moses lived as an Egyptian of princely rank until he was about forty years old ..."

Ananda.   "In Moses' next embodiment, as Ananda during the sixth century he became the disciple of Lord Gautama Buddha. Here, at the feet of' the most advanced initiate on the planet, he learned how to render service in love and to tap the peace and understanding that come from within the golden flame of illumination. ..."

Lord Ling.   "Following that embodiment, he lived in China as Lord Ling, one of the ruling class whose high attunement with the Brotherhood enabled him to serve his people through the balanced action of the threefold flame. ..."

by Mark and Elizabeth Prophet,
from The Masters and Their Retreats p. 190-193  - Amazon.com

- - - -
When was Moses in Egypt?    "The entity then was in that land now known as Egyptian, during the period when the princess Hatshepsut (the entity's mother) was in power; and the entity's name was Sidiptu, hence a sister of that leader Moses, the law giver of Israel. ..."

by Edgar Cayce,
from the Edgar Cayce Readings (355-1)

- - - -
See also:

Moses & New Research (by Ove von Spaeth)

Historical evidence for Moses and Pharao

The Hidden Moses

John, - ascendedmaster@yahoo.com - http://www.geocities.com/ascendedmaster/Moses.html  -  (April,2008)

By  OVE VON SPAETH

Many ancient historical events can be seen rejected as "untrustworthy" by some scholars - especially what concerns the Moses part of the Bible.
          However, there exists enormous amounts of valuable information about ancient and pre-ancient times and cultures. Thus, on the basis of the many years of accumulating finds and results an influential group of researchers' extreme theorizing of the past appears directly as absurd.
 

A stele commemorating a conquered kitchen?

Research on the historical Moses and the conceptions from this are still suffering  - because of some dominating theories which for more than hundred years - especially the span of 1870-1990's are depriving Moses of all historical identity. By these influential scholarly ideas about the biblical background the researchers most often have omitted to observe the Egyptian factor although it is among the most important elements in the understanding of many claimed text discrepancies. A "knowledge filter" has been created that automatically filters everything out which is not in accordance with prevailing theories; but critics would call it 'killing history'.

          Still at the beginning of our new millennium many researchers reject the existence of King David and claiming that the Jews invented David in order to have an imperial builder like Alexander the Great (356-323 BC). However, this is a misleading, as David did not created an empire, and because a victory monument made of basalt, ca. 800 BC, was erected by the Aramaians, the Syrian enemies of Israel, 150 years after David's time.
          The basalt stele is inscribed 'King of Israel' and 'House of David', bjtdwd - an expression appearing in the Bible about 25 times concerning David's dynasty ruling in Judea. Nevertheless, many researchers' pet history-model was jeopardized, so they preferred bjtdwd to mean 'boiler house' (kitchen) despite the impossibility in the fact that a victory stele should present a conquered/captured kitchen.

          Also King Midas was claimed to be a myth only. It is peculiar that Alexander the Great is indeed historically recognized, but not his acquaintance with a historical legacy regarding the wealthy King Midas and Midas' father, King Gordion, only 400 years prior to Alexander's visit to their city, Gordion, although this visit is documented. This is almost as if we refused to recognize the existence of King Louis XIV, the roi soleil of France, only 400 years prior to our time, although recognizing his Versailles.
          In 1957 archaeologist Rodney Young opened King Midas' grave mound, close to Yassihöyük in Turkey. Here was the site of ancient Gordion. Whatever any modern theory will assume next about the dating, it is a fact that the exact, scientific dating of the contents - around 750 BC - is precisely in accordance with data of the so-called myths.

          Even Buddha was called a myth. The claim concerning being a myth was counter-proved in 1876, when archaeologist John Cunningham found and excavated Buddha's disappeared birth place Lumbini, and also his childhood town, Kapilavastu, in Northern India. These sites being correctly pointed out - is overwhelmingly confirmed by historic inscriptions. Many of these were found in the 1890's by archaeologist Dr. Alois Fuhrer, learned in Pali and Sanskrit, and he also found King Asoka's famous columns with confirming inscriptions.
          Some of the greatest archaeological findings in other places on earth have been found in exactly the same way - via exact information in myths and legends many thousand years old.

          Great archaeologists and explorers have been able to disclose a number of claimed myths. But in addition to rigid research-political interests, also political-religious circumstances can be seen impending the solution "myths" and claiming them to be non-historical. Such problems are also known in many other historical archaeology relations. One example is that genuine Israelite-Jewish ancient findings belonging to the other side of the present Israeli borders are often designated as "Syrian culture findings". 


Conventional research on biblical Moses not unbiased

The hitherto fruitless search for traces of Moses in Egyptian history is often due to the fact that customary  knowledge and traditions about him are mainly viewed as if the Bible was the only or most important source. Narratives about Moses can also be found in the oldest of the texts which are jointly designated the "Rabbinical Writings". The latter give often more personal information about him - and were handed down as chronicles outside the Bible.

          From the first part of the 18th dynasty (around 1500 BC) - where historians find a strange and hidden transfer of power from Hatshepsut to Tuthmosis III - potential traces of Moses' Egyptian life should be recognised upon a new attitude to discovered sources. The historical material itself makes it clear that point after point of the biblical Moses narrative and its connected texts in the Rabbinical Writings prove more plausible than hitherto considered possible.
          In particular it is striking when Rabbinical and ancient writers' information is being evaluated together with finds and results from archaeology and Egyptology. In addition astronomical dating based on e.g. ancient sources of celestial records demonstrates the exact accordance with Jewish sources.

          It would have a great realistic value to point to a possible identity of the Moses figure. For many and different reasons research of history, Egyptology, and theology have not always been unbiased in the many attempts through times to trace Moses as a real person in history. To point to a historically authentic Egyptian person as being Moses is not at all unprecedented; well-known Egyptologists have tried - suggestions with gaps in historical coherence and the use of non-consisting Moses dating, however, the attempts compel respect.

          The breach with traditional way of perception by biblical related research was so successful that some researchers at an early stage took myths seriously and made them subject to close analyses. Anthropologists and others - e.g. also Freud and some of his followers - were among the first to scientifically enlarge the view on special circumstances of the contents of the oldest biblical texts. Whereas other researchers maintaining the theory about the Bible as myths only, have not yet solved the simple question: if the majority of the Bible about Moses is an artificial invention only and without a certain probability, then the Mosaic religion remains a huge mystery.
 

Egyptian Surce Documentation on Moses

Many researchers adopted the attitude that Abraham and Moses are pure fiction, the exodus never happened - and most of the Bible consists of fictional, national-ideological narratives set in a "patchwork" of religious backgrounds; everything invented by the priests ca. 300 BC.
          Although also many general inscriptions in stone exist, a physical source problem is the perishableness of old papyrus writing material - only few manuscripts or parts of texts on papyrus prior to ca. 1300 BC are preserved.

          Although the Bible has 3-4 Hebrew words for 'linen/cotton' (e.g. bad, peshet, and sadin) the Egyptian word shesh (shesn) is being used 38 times, of which 34 passages with this word are in the Pentateuch but is nevertheless claimed to belong to a so-called late "P-source" (i.e. alleged having been written by Hebrew priests 1000 years later than the Israelite exodus). But why should the clergy (P-source) leave out the words of their own Hebrew biblical language and be Egyptologic linguistic historians?
          It is a historical fact that early traces of "monotheism" (in fact monolatri), i.e. the idea of one chosen (creating) god superior to other gods, was known in Egypt - for instance in 1500-1400 BC, i.e. the time of Moses, but also known much earlier. According to ancient writers he would present his own ideas about reforming the Egyptian religion, so that the traditional clergy obviously had good reasons for a protection against him.

          However, 2,300 years ago King Ptolemy II ordered all ancient books and documents from the libraries of the temples all over Egypt to be collected in his new great library of Alexandria - and here at that time, the historian and priest, Manetho, drew information from these sources and wrote in Greek about Moses' riot and the exodus.
          Thus, it is a fact that at 280 BC original Egyptian documentation on Moses was still existing - so how can so many of present-day’s scholars and researchers claim that Moses never existed but is an invention created in Israel or even Babylonia by Jewish priests at the same time ca. 300 BC?

          The Ptolemean kings allowed Jews to settle down in Egypt - and through ca. 300 years in the city of Leontopolis they had their own temple of the Jerusalem model and a highpriest. And in Alexandria they lived in a fourth part, the Delta quarter, of the great city - altogether a huge group of new Jewish inhabitants (and in addition many Samaritan emigrants) to be behind the king’s sponsoring a translation of the Hebrew Bible into the Greek international language - the Septuaginta Bible.
          Again, it was around 280 BC that this task was carried out in Alexandria. In the great library Manetho by chance may even have worked almost side by side with the 72 translating Jewish rabbis and scholars.
          So, how can anybody claim that the Bible is a late creation - and how could the concrete existing Septuaginta Bible then have been translated from a Hebrew Bible which in the claimed case barely existed yet?


Archaeological Documentation

Many academic schools of these directions of research claim persistently that Moses and the exodus from Egypt are myths - a claim in open conflict with many ancient writings. It is a fact that the pharaoh now known as Tuthmosis II is mentioned in ancient Jewish writings as "the stepfather of Moses" and "the husband of Pharaoh's daughter". Also Artapanos, the Egyptian-Jewish writer, ca. 150 BC, believes this - as quoted by ancient Church historian Eusebius who even specifies that this special pharaoh (Tuthmosis II) was the oldest known case of suffering from elephantiasis.
          The mummy of Pharaoh Tuthmosis II was found as late as in 1881, and his skin was still showing an advanced suffering from elephantiasis-like bulges - the most violent case ever seen on any royal mummy! This means that these specific data about Moses cannot have been invented, as they refer exactly to a certain Pharaoh and his time (ca. 1500 BC). It also determines a more correct time for Moses.

          The Jewish-Roman historian Josephus, 2,000 years ago, had invaluable sources on the history of the Jews, also because of Titus Caesar (Vespasian), the conqueror of Jerusalem, gave Josephus scrolls that were taken from The Jerusalem Temple on its destruction in 70 AD. Josephus had no problem with acknowledging the authenticity of Manetho's texts but disagreed much with Manetho's Egyptian view on Moses as a destructive rebellion - to Josephus he was a hero.
          Among an Egyptian king’s many daughters only bears the title "Pharaoh's Daughter" - the crownprincess. In the Bible, Moses is mentioned in terms as 'the Son of Pharaoh's Daughter'. This, his in fact royal Egyptian title, is corresponding with that Manetho both calling him Moses and Osarsyph  - i.e. User-sif  in late-Egyptian language meaning 'child of Osiris', i.e. Horus, who was always identified with the crown prince of Egypt.

          Some archaeological findings in Israel of small bronze figures made out as Golden Calves are both independently dated to 1400-1300 BC. This result has not been doubted by any professional. The concrete findings confirm the plausibility of the biblical narrative about the Golden Calf and the time-originality of the text, especially as these findings have been made at the cities of Ashqelon and northern Dan, respectively.
          It is worth noting that it was exactly these two sites which in turns were inhabited by the Dan tribe, who - according to the Bible ("The Book of Judges") - continued to have a Golden Calf cult, now headed by a priest, a descendant of Moses! Many scholars claim that the biblical texts were written very late, 400-300 BC, but it is simply unlikely that anybody would "invent" a text with a prestige as bad as the "Golden Calf cult".

          The excavation of Jericho shows that the construction of the city wall with houses on top of the wall is in accordance with the biblical ("The Book of Joshua") description - for instance of the house of Rahab. When the Bible mentions Joshua's order for removing all metal from the city, before he burned it down, the traces of a well organized burning down the city are all recognized together with fact that precisely this city (specific layer) only - among a number of other Jerichos built on top of each other - was completly robbed of all kinds of metal.
          However, the dating of the conquest of Jericho to be during the years of 1100 BC are still recognised by many, although long ago it has been proved wrong by new and better archaeology, for instance the thorough ceramic and chemical dating and in addition the dating of the collapse of the city walls to be ca. 1400 BC. A most important fact: this is in exact accordance with the age of the contemporary Tell el-Amarna letters about the Hebrew invasion in this ancient country.


The theory-convinced researchers

Based on exact and simply undisputable, archaeological evidence material, many theory-convinced historians and theologians have had to give up - finally - their claims about non-historical myths concerning Ur, the Hittites, and even King Midas, Buddha, and many more. People of ancient time knew the difference between myths and actual occurrences, so instead of undocumented assertions about myths as stated by the researchers, they themselves ought to start proving whether historical data are myths.
          It is an inevitable fact that none of the learned men in antiquity, not even those who were opponents to the Bible or the Jews, has denied the existence of Moses. The denial proclaimed among today’s researchers would be considered arrogant.

          For almost 1,800 years unconditional belief in the Bible was mandatory. Today, many academic theologians do not recommend belief in the ancient parts of Bible, and when being confronted with new, exact facts about real history these people may even refuse them with an almost religious fanaticism and sometimes some aggression. However, when initiating any investigation of ancient history it is rather irresponsible in advance to reject events of the past as "imaginations". Why should people of ancient times be considered more stupid than people of today and be equipped with a belief in old tall stories about their knowledge of history?

Ove von Spaeth, writer, researcher - copyright © 2004  -  www.moses-egypt.net

The text includes extracts from Ove von Spaeth's books "The Secret Religion" and "Prophet and Unknown Genius" - www.moses-egypt.net/book-series/moses_survey_en.asp - C.A. Reitzel Bookseller, Publisher www.careitzel.com

An extremely eminent and very, very exciting insight on Ove von Spaeth's  Freud and Moses - and the historical part of it is in complete accordance with what I know about Egypt. This year I have taught two classes and given considerable importance to ancient Egyptian history, and the possibility of reviving some of the previously read material supplemented with a lot of new material was of benefit to me.
          Very interesting information about the word Pharaoh. In some of "my" history works I learn that "Pharaoh" means "the double house" and is thus referring to the fact that Egypt consists of a northern and a southern part - and that the pharaonic headgear is a combination of two different symbols, i.e. North and South.

          As to contents: my goodness, this is exciting reading material. Until I read this text, I did not know about Ove von Spaeth's contact with the Greek-Danish Prince Peter, the anthropologist, who - 'less easy' for our enjoyment of his presence in Denmark - was more active abroad, so this fact was very interesting. Also interesting was the reading about Ove von Spaeth's Moses-series with the volume one's previous mentioning of Freud, and the great newpaper editor-in-chief Viktor Andreasen's reaction to this, "Grumpy Viktor", as was his nick name. The remarks about Thomas Mann are important to me; up till last year I taught German and in fact this work included a lot about Thomas Mann, by whom I have been inspired in many ways.
          Constructive criticism may often be useful, but in this case it is very uncomfortable to have to react critically to such a magnificent work. So I looked into some of the used sources, and here was Josephus.

          In fact, as a tutor I have recently studied a very interesting student's treatise about Josephus' "book" 5 and 6. The student and I, as the guide, had worked quite a lot on what concerns the value of Josephus based on a perspective of criticism of the sources. And for one thing, his pro-Roman information should be accepted with a grain of salt. On the other hand he is a very important prime source in many other relations.
          When using elements from Josephus - in the way it has been done in Ove von Spaeth's text - where it cannot be claimed at all that information has been influenced by a pro-Roman attitude (as we know he moved to Rome and wrote with imperial support) - Josephus' information appears so much more clear as important and essential.

          This is a wonderful presentation. I even admit honestly that I have read it many times. It was a penetratingly good experience. I was left with an incredibly good feeling of a very exciting paper. The pleasure of the contents make me say: it was truely wonderful reading - in short: fabulous information. Great text.  

Jens Jørgensen, Historian, Writer, former Headmaster, - City Council of Slagelse  - - jens@slagelse.dk -  (13.Dec.2007)


(Ed.note: The article on "Freud and Moses...", mentioned by Jens Jørgensen can be found here: www.moses-egypt.net/book-series/ovs_related-articles-c_en.asp )

Subject:  Von Spaeth and the Birth of Moses.  - Yahoo! ID: marianneluban
Ancient History Discussion of the Bible World. - The largest English-speaking list in the world that allows un-moderated discussion of Old and New Testament historical issues:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AncientBibleHistory
_

Hi all, Maybe those of you who know me think I've fallen off the globe, but I'm still around - have just been very busy writing books. I've just put out "The Pharaoh's Barber", a murder mystery set in the court of Thutmose III and, by the end of the month, "The Priest" [as in Catholic, not acient Egyptian] will be available. That's a lot of time on a word-processor!

          Anyway, I hope to be able to engage in discourse with y'all again here. Many of you have never heard of Ove von Spaeth, but he's a very interesting Danish independent scholar [my favorite kind of people, when they're well-informed and reasonable] who loves astronomy.
          I thought I knew a lot about rabbincal literature, Midrashim, but here's something I missed and left out in my own book - Rabbi Abrabanel's info on the state of the heavens around the time of the birth of Moses.
          But Von Spaeth, the same guy who attributed the year 1534 BCE to the heavenly configuration on the astronomical ceiling of Senenmut, picked up on it.
          Read here:  http://www.moses-egypt.net/book1/moses1-cap1_en.asp

marianneluban, #57935, <Mluban@...> - AncientBibleHistory - Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:15 pm - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AncientBibleHistory/message/57935  -  (17.Feb.2008)

Marianne Luban is the author of "The Pharaoh's Barber", Pacific Moon Publications, 2008  - http://www.amazon.com/Pharaohs-Barber-Marianne-Luban/dp/0972952411
- also, Marianne Luban: "The Exodus Chronicles: Beliefs, Legends & Rumors from Antiquity Regarding the Exodus of the Jews from Egypt", Pacific Moon Publications, 2003  - http://www.amazon.com/Exodus-Chronicles-Beliefs-Antiquity-Regarding/dp/0972952403

_

It's good to see you back, Marianne: you've been sorely missed.
- aj,

andrej1234au, - #57956 <andrej1234au@...> - AncientBibleHistory - Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:30 am -  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AncientBibleHistory/message/57956 -  (19.Feb.2008)

Wales, Pontypridd & Valleys Forum - (present item:) The Bible (Read 2214 times)
_

There is no such thing as "The" Bible. There are many versions of this book, and many parts missing. edited, lost or adjusted in translation. I think it people who claim to be 'Christians' start telling others what this book says, they should take care to specify what version/date/language version, they refer to. Some say it was written by God, well if that's the case, then God is obviously Welsh.

ValleyBoy, Senior Member, (Cefnogwch Cymru), Posts: 3371, - Reply #15 - Re: The Bible - Dec 7th, 2007, 3:29pm -  http://pontytown.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1196513949;start=all  -  (7.Dec.2007)

- - -

There are many translations but most Christians are aware of those which stick most closely to the original. I haven't yet heard anyone say it was written by God. I've heard all Christians say that it was inspired by Him.

Beth, Junior Member, (And God said... Charles who?), Posts: 225, - Reply #16 - Re: The Bible - Dec 7th, 2007, 5:08pm -  http://pontytown.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1196513949;start=all  -  (7.Dec.2007)

95% of the Universe is a mystery to scientists... you just have to put your faith in the fact that Dark Matter is there, even though they don't know what it is and cannot see it....

- - -

Check these out:

http://reluctant-messenger.com/lost_forgotten_books.htm

http://www.moses-egypt.net/book1/moses1-reviews_en.asp

http://ia300027.us.archive.org/2/items/biblemythsandthe00doanuoft/biblemythsandt he00doanuoft.pdf

George, Full Member, (Darwin Enabler), Posts: 1328, - Reply #17 - Re: The Bible - Dec 7th, 2007, 5:31pm  -  http://pontytown.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1196513949;start=all  -  (7.Dec.2007)

"Gwell Angu Na Chywilyd" Better Death Than Dishonour

EBblog - owned by (name:) Kai Mikkelsen - www.ebblog.dk/3561/perma/3210#
This blog is not being edited in advance by the Ekstra Bladet New Media. The owner of the blog is responsible for all contents.
_

That something arouses dislike does not necessarily make it offensive and subject to censorship - to google Swastika and get wiser!  Key word: wikipeda
Trackback-URL: http://www.ebblog.dk//track.php?art=32106

Buddhist temples in the Far East use the Swastika as a pictogram.
          Written by Kai Mikkelsen on 12 November, 2007, at 12:23

# 1 Comment from an Anonymous (reply):
Isn't it turned around? Isn't it a sun sign? (which Hitler stole and misused). Isn't that well-known to everybody?
          Improper? Tip moderator! Written on 12 November, 2007, at 12:45
_

Answer from Kai Mikkelsen:
It is not my impression. I had a comment deleted because a little girl was frightened by an old, manipulated picture of the Europe Flag with an inserted Turkish flag and a Swastika. I was warning against Fascist powers in case of a wrong voting. This young person is too young to relate to the occupation, but may have been told that it was something ugly - with the result that she reported the comment and in this way the freedom of speech and expression was again violated.
          Improper? Tip moderator! Written on 12 November, 2007, at 12:57
_

#4 Comment from BM (answar):
The nationality mark of the Finnish Air Force during 1918–44. It did not origin from the Nazis, but from Swedish Count von Rosen, who helped out the Finns in their fight for independence.
          Improper? Tip moderator! Written on 12 November, 2007, at 12:52
_

#7 Comment from BM (svar):
The truth about... Swastika og Hakenkreutz:
Hopies and Swastika. In his article on "Nostradamus and the New Millennium", at VisdomsNettet, skriver Ove von Spaeth:  "... Hopi Prophecies. The Hopies, one of North America's oldest Indian communities, have protected their very ancient rock inscriptions. These are showing omens concerning, for instance, the world "after the great war", where "evil powers abused the sign of the sun". This means Nazi-Germany's swastika - where this sun-glyph was turned opposite in contrast to the old traditions (of the Hindus using it in more than 5,000 years; also the ancient Jews, and the Vikings seem to know this sign quite early) - and Japan's national (war) flag, likewise, showed an ancient sun-sign ...
          ... According to the Hopies, Hopi omens state that in the period after World War II humanity will have a last greater chance to bring nature and the world into a better balance and to become conscious about this instead of functioning stupid-mechanical. Failing this, we shall, in the new age, soon follow the wrong track inevitably, without being able to stop, ‘leading towards the abyss'. The omen is understood to include possibilities for alternative results, especially if present generations will listen and change the course. ..."
          Link to Ove von Spaeth's article NOSTRADAMUS - AND THE NEW MILLENNIUM.

Additional:  Feature in the Jyllands-Posten's Net edition, published on 21 January, 2007, (and mailed by Ove von Spaeth to the VisdomsNettet):  Hindus and the Swastika. For THOUSANDS OF YEARS the Swastika has been the holy Hindu symbol, i.e. the cross that Hitler stole and made the Nazi stamp of their atrocities.
          The Swastika has already been forbidden in Germany. Now, while heading the EU Presidency, Germany is, among many activities, planning to pass a law forbidding the use of the sign in all EU member states. Obviously, Hindus living in Europe are protesting, because in the 5,000 years when the Swastika was their religious symbol, it meant the opposite of what Hitler did to it.
          In the Hinduism the Swastika is a symbol of the goodness and of peace. Contrary to that, the Hitler Swastika means disaster, which the Nazis demonstrated in full by reversing the sign and making it the grotesque and gruesome symbol of their violent regime and the Holocaust.
          The Jewish dislike of the Hitler Swastika is easily understood and accepted. Equally understandable is the uneasyness of Germany and other European countries, when Neo-Nazi groups use the symbols belonging to the Hitler era. But the Neo-Nazi problem cannot be solved with a law making it impossible for Hindus to continue to use the original version of the cross.
          Of course the peaceful version of the cross should not be prohibited, only because Hitler created a reversed travesty, or naively believing that in this way Neo-Nazism can be stopped. On the contrary it must be realised that the essence of the Swastika problem is sheer ignorance of the original significance of the symbol. Consequently, the EU objective should be to inform about the difference of the two symbols by education and information.
          The fact that Hitler stole the holy Hindu symbol and used it as his stamp for terror, racism, and religious discrimination is no acceptable reason for forbidding the original symbol. That is only dealing superficially with a much more serious problem: the Neo-Nazism.
          Improper? Tip moderator! Written on 12 November, 2007, at 14:24
_

Answer from Kai Mikkelsen:
Thank you for the updating. Perhaps that may diversify the ideas of symbols – although I doubt it.
          Improper? Tip moderator! Written on 12 November, 2007, at 17:05
_

Kai Mikkelsen, - http://www.ebblog.dk/3561/perma/32106 - (12.Nov.2007)

"... Michel de Notredame, doctor and legendary prophecy writer in the renaissance, was very famous most of his life and far beyond, even up till today - and also much debated.
          Scientifically, and without a key, it is difficult to say whether - in the mid-1600 century - he was able to predict Napoleon and Hitler in later centuries, - although, names, times, and places might have a similarity with historic facts. However, modern astronomy computation can be used on a hitherto missed out part of his statements concerning the year 1999. The result proved to hit a special phenomenon of time.
          The number 1999 is published as "open", being the only exact year he ever stated in his writings; and Basiliscus/Regulus is the only star placed exactly in the "track of the sun", which really is the track of the earth: the Ecliptic. This track is the only part of the sky where solar eclipses and lunar eclipses can take place - thus the name Ecliptic, the 'eclipse' line. ..."  .....
          (Read the whole article: http://www.ovs.thirax.dk/Artikel-X/Ove18/index-uk.htm )

Article by OVE VON SPAETH: 'Nostradamus - And the New Millennium'
          copyright © 1998 & copyright © 2004 - www.moses-egypt.net

Aspiranten (Norway, -  article by Ove von Spaeth on Nostradamus and the New Millennium  -  3 year, no. 6, 2004, pp. 7-14  -  http://www.teosofi.info/aspiranten/aspiranten-1.php?l=no   -  (jun.2004)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1530s_BC"
Category: 1530s BC
_

1530s BC - From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Millennia:  2nd millennium BC
Centuries: 17th century BC - 16th century BC - 15th century BC
Decades: 1560s BC 1550s BC 1540s BC - 1530s BC - 1520s BC 1510s BC 1500s BC
Years:  1539 BC 1538 BC 1537 BC 1536 BC 1535 BC 1534 BC 1533 BC 1532 BC 1531 BC 1530 BC
Categories: Births - Deaths - State leaders - Sovereign states - Establishments - Disestablishments

Events and trends
• 1539 BC - End of Seventeenth dynasty of Egypt, start of the Eighteenth Dynasty.
• 1539 BC - Approximate first use of the Valley of the Kings.
• 1534 BC - The oldest dated star chart was made in Ancient Egypt.[1]
• 1530 BC - End of First Dynasty of Babylon and start of the Kassite Dynasty - see History of Iraq.

References
1.  von Spaeth, Ove (1999). "Dating the Oldest Egyptian Star Map". Centaurus International Magazine of the History of Mathematics, Science and Technology 42 (3): 159-179. Retrieved on 2007-10-21.

en.wikipedia.org, 1530s BC - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1530s_BC -  (13.Dec.2007)

Star cult was the world picture of previous times and the interpretation of life, cf. "in heaven as on earth". Guidance was sought for life on earth in "as in heaven" because micro cosmos reflects macro cosmos. Everything has a "celestial copy", as Swedenborg also said.
          Without knowing about the symbolism of ancient star knowledge, the profound meaning of many biblical issues cannot be perceived, in particular the Revelation of St. John. When attempting to understand the astro-mythological world picture, which to a wide extent is the basis of the Bible, much insight can be provided by Ove von Spaeth's book, "The Secret Religion" (the 4th volume of the series, "Assassinating Moses", Reitzel Publishers, 2004).
          Ove von Spaeth focuses on the many important layers of the Bible, and in this way he also demonstrates the naivety when interpreting in the literal sense of the biblical words. However, the layers in disguise were only available to those specially initiated.

Ruth Olsen, ed., The New World's Impulse, Forum for Cosmological Information, No. 4, December 2007, 25. year, pp. 6-7. -  www.nyimpuls.dk  - (Dec.2007)

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stella - Da Wikipedia, l'enciclopedia libera.
Storia delle osservazioni
_

Storia delle osservazioni. La Via Lattea. Le stelle hanno da sempre una grande importanza per tutte le culture, sia in ambito religioso sia come ausilio per l'orientamento negli spostamenti e durante la navigazione.
          Gli astronomi antichi ritenevano che le stelle fossero dei puntini immutabili permanentemente incastonati nella sfera celeste. Per convenzione, essi raggrupparono gli astri in costellazioni e se ne servirono per tracciare i percorsi compiuti dai pianeti e dal Sole nel corso dell'anno.[9] Il moto del Sole sullo sfondo delle stelle fisse e dell'orizzonte fu utilizzato per redigere dei calendari, impiegati per regolare le pratiche agricole.[10] Il calendario Gregoriano, utilizzato attualmente in ogni parte del mondo, è un calendario solare basato sull'angolo dell'asse di rotazione terrestre relativo al Sole.
          La più antica ed accurata carta stellare comparve nell'Antico Egitto nel 1534 a.C..[11] Gli astronomi islamici diedero nomi arabi, gran parte dei quali ancor'oggi usati, a un gran numero di stelle, ed inventarono numerosi strumenti astronomici in grado di tenere in conto la posizione degli astri. Nell'XI secolo l'astronomo Abū Rayhān al-Bīrūnī descrisse la nostra galassia, la Via Lattea, come una moltitudine di frammenti dalle proprietà tipiche delle stelle nebulose; calcolò anche la latitudine di alcune stelle durante un'eclissi lunare avvenuta nel 1019.[12]

Note e riferimenti
8.  Dal Dizionario etimologico on-line. URL consultato il 2007-12-25.
9.  George Forbes. History of Astronomy (Free e-book from Project Gutenberg). London, Watts & Co., 1909.
10.  Claus Tøndering. Other ancient calendars. WebExhibits. URL consultato il 2006-12-10.
11.  Ove von Spaeth (1999/2000), Dating the Oldest Egyptian Star Map, Centaurus International Magazine of the History of Mathematics, Science and Technology, 42 (3): 159-179. URL accessed on 2007-10-21.
12.  A. Zahoor. Al-Biruni. Hasanuddin University, 1997. URL consultato il 2007-10-21.

it.wikipedia.org, - Stella, - http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stella  - (25.Dec.2007)

Egyptological subjects:  Ancient Egyptian technology.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Ancient Egypt Portal

What the Egyptians invented, devised and improved ... This article is part of WikiProject Ancient Egypt, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Egyptological subjects. (see Wikipedia: Contributing FAQ for more information).

Ancient Egyptian technology
The characteristics of Ancient Egyptian technology are indicated by a set of artifacts and customs that lasted for thousands of years. The Egyptians invented and used many basic machines, such as the ramp and the lever, to aid construction processes. They used rope trusses to stiffen the beam of ships, unknown again until modern engineering.

1.6  Astronomy and astrology
Early Egyptian culture identified celestial objects with deities and spirits. They related these objects (and their movements) to phenomena such as rain, drought, seasons, and tides. It is generally believed that the first "professional" astronomers were religious leaders in the temples, and that their understanding of the "heavens" was seen as "divine", hence astronomy's ancient connection to what is now called astrology. Ancient structures with astronomical alignments (such as Pyramids and temples) probably fulfilled both astronomical and religious functions. Egyptian astrology provided star charts that have been found in Egypt that date as early as 1,500 BC.

22.  Egyptology and Astronomy: 5. "Ancient Egyptians As Skilled Calculators" (website: www.moses-egypt.net).

WikiProject Ancient Egypt, -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ancient_Egyptian_technology   -  (16.Jan.2008)

Evolutionary Astrology:  www.mauricefernandez.com . This forum is designed for all who are interested in Astrology and the Evolution of Consciousness.
          Any related questions or discussions are welcome. Maurice will respond together with willing participants to make this a meaningful learning experience. Please take into consideration that this learning forum is not designed for personal counselling or group therapy, hence, when discussing your own chart, try to formulate your question in a way that would make it an informative astrological study for everyone.
          - January 20, 2008, a recommendation:
http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut5-world-axis_en.asp 
- especially:  http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut5-world-axis_en.asp#4

Gimel,  Evolutionary Astrology, - Posted, Jan 20 2008 : 01:56:38  -  © 2000-02 Snitz Communications  -  http://www.mauricefernandez.com/forum_eng/post.asp?method=Reply&TOPIC_ID=8240&FORUM_ID=3  -  (20.Jan.2007)

 উইকিপিডিয়া, মুক্ত বিশ্বকোষ থেকে
(নক্ষত্র (তারা) থেকে ঘুরে এসেছে)

পর্যবেক্ষণের ইতিহাস
প্রতিটি সংস্কৃতিতেই তারা বিশেষ গুরুত্ব বহন করতো। ধর্ম চর্চায় এর ব্যবহার ছিল সবচেয়ে বেশী। এছাড়া তারার মাধ্যমে নাবিকরা দিক নির্ণয় করতো এবং ঋতুর সাথে এর সম্পর্কটিও মানুষ অনেক আগে বুঝতে পেরেছিল। প্রাচীন জ্যোতির্বিদরা অনেকেই বিশ্বাস করতেন, তারা স্বর্গীয় গোলকে নির্দিষ্ট স্থানে আবদ্ধ আছে এবং এরা অপরিবর্তনীয়। চলতি প্রথা অনুযায়ী তারা তারাগুলোকে কিছু তারামণ্ডলে ভাগ করেছিলেন এবং এই মণ্ডলগুলোর মাধ্যমে সূর্যের অনুমিত অবস্থান ও গ্রহের গতি সম্বন্ধে ধারণা লাভ করতেন[২]। তারার পটভূমিতে তথা দিগন্তে সূর্যের গতিকে ব্যবহার করে পঞ্জিকা তৈরী করা হতো যা কৃষিকাজে বিশেষ কাজে আসতো। বর্তমানে পৃথিবীর সবচেয়ে বেশী ব্যবহৃত পঞ্জিকা জর্জীয় পঞ্জিকা সৌরকেন্দ্রিক। সূর্যের সাপেক্ষে পৃথিবীর ঘূর্ণন অক্ষের কোণগুলোর মাধ্যমে এই পঞ্জিকা নির্মিত হয়।

জানা মতে সঠিকভাবে প্রস্তুতকৃত প্রাচীনতম পঞ্জিকা নির্মাণ করেছিল প্রাচীন মিশরীয়রা, ১,৫৩৪ খ্রিস্টপূর্বাব্দে[৩]। ইসলামী জ্যোতির্বজ্ঞানীরা অনেক তারার আরবী নাম দিয়েছিলেন যার অনেকগুলো এখনও ব্যবহৃত হয়। এছাড়া তারা তারার অবস্থান নির্ণয়ের জন্য প্রচুর জ্যোতির্বৈজ্ঞানিক যন্ত্র নির্মাণ করেছিলেন। একাদশ শতাব্দীতে আবু রাইহান আল-বিরুনি আকাশগঙ্গা ছায়াপথকে বিপুল সংখ্যক ভগ্নাংশের সমন্বয়ে গঠিত বলে ব্যাখ্যা করেন। এর ভগ্নাংশগুলোর নীহারিকময় তারার মত ধর্ম রয়েছে বলেও তিনি উল্লেখ করেন। ১০১৯ সালের এক চন্দ্র গ্রহণের সময় তিনি বিভিন্ন তারার অক্ষাংশও নির্ণয় করেছিলেন।[৪]
তারাকে স্বর্গীয় অপরিবর্তনীয় বস্তুরূপে কল্পনা করলেও চৈনিক জ্যোতির্বিদরা বুঝতে পেরেছিলেন, নতুন তারার উদ্ভব হতে পারে[৫]।

References
1.   Online Etymology Dictionary. 2007-09-21 তারিখে সংগৃহীত।
2.   George Forbes (1909). History of Astronomy (Free e-book from Project Gutenberg), London: Watts & Co..
3.   von Spaeth, Ove (2000). "Dating the Oldest Egyptian Star Map". Centaurus International Magazine of the History of Mathematics, Science and Technology, 42 (3): 159-179. Retrieved on 2007-10-21.
4.   Zahoor, A. (1997). Al-Biruni. Hasanuddin University. 2007-10-21 তারিখে সংগৃহীত।
5.   D.H. Clark, F. R. Stephenson (1981-06-29). "The Historical Supernovae". Supernovae: A survey of current research; Proceedings of the Advanced Study Institute: 355–370, Cambridge, England: Dordrecht, D. Reidel Publishing Co.. Retrieved on 2006-09-24.

Wikipedia, Brunei Darussalam,   -  https://the-equalizer.net/c/nph-agent_en/101110A/http/bn.wikipedia.org/wiki/তারা   -   (21.Oct.2007)

Welcome to Jamara. Empowerment through Information. Mark Taylor Harbin has a Bachelor of Arts in International Relations & Spanish and has a Masters degree in Contracts Management. He is an educated Occupational Health, Safety & Quality Advisor & Auditor since 1987.
_

Throughout life we all have experienced times that might have turned out better if only we had been more informed. Jamerah can provide this for you. You can choose your method. You can meet yourself through astrology, numerology or feng shui. These techniques passed down through the centuries are available for progress in your life.

          Concerning Western Astrology, - Astrology Articles:
"Regents, Admirals - and the Royal Astrologers",  written by Ove von Spaeth:
          "... All through history, in fact all the way up till the 19th century, astrology might be as much involved in politics as for instance financial regards - and it was also a very widespread and natural factor in philosophy of life and in the normal day, e.g. like religion is. Astrology is hardly known in history books - this equals to for instance avoiding mentioning of large parts of the Catholic Church era in Cultural History. ..." 
          -  Read the whole Ove von Spaeth-article here:  "Regents, Admirals - and the Royal Astrologers" :
http://www.jamerah.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=64&Itemid=72

Mark Taylor Harbin: Jamerah,  Empowerment through Information, - http://www.jamerah.com/index.php  -  (February2007)

          "... The map on the southern panel proves to reflecta special of planets around the longitude of Sirius. The four planets Jupiter, Saturn, Mercury and Venus are relatively easyly recognizable. The planet Mars is not included in the actual grouping and at first sight seems to be missing in the map. However, Mars is also pictured in the Senenmut map, but is represented by an empty boat in the west. This seems to refer to the fact that Mars was retrograde so that in this backward movement (well-known phenomenon to the Egyptians) the Mars position was perhaps not considered to be "concrete". Using these facts, Egyptologists were able to date that this particular configuration occured in the sky in 1534 BC (von Spaeth 2000)*. ..."
          *(Von Spaeth 2000) von Spaeth, O., 2000 Centaurus, 42, pp. 159-179.
Boran Novakovic:  "Senenmut: An Ancient Egyptian Astronomer", astro-ph, 8 Jan 2008
- to appear in Publication of Astronomical Observatory of Belgrade (supported by Ministry of Science of Serbia)

Bojan Novakovic, Astronomical Observatory, Volgina 7, 11160 Belgrade 74, Serbia.  Tue, 8 Jan 2008 22:42:42 GMT -  http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0801/0801.1331v1.pdf  -  (8.Jan.2008)

- - -

Abstract
The celestial phenomenon have always been a source of wonder and interest to people, even as long ago as the ancient Egyptians. While the ancient Egyptians did not know all the things about astronomy that we do now, they had a good understanding of the some celestial phenomenon. The achievements in astronomy of ancient Egyptians are relatively well known, but we know very little about the people who made these achievements. The goal of this paper is to bring some light on the life of Senenmut, the chief architect and astronomer during the reign of Queen Hatshepsut.

adsabs.harvard.edu, - SAO/NASA ADS arXiv e-prints Abstract Service, http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2008arXiv0801.1331N

Title:  Senenmut: An Ancient Egyptian Astronomer.
Authors:  Novakovic, Bojan
Publication:  eprint arXiv:0801.1331  -  Publication Date:  01/2008  -  Origin:  ARXIV
Keywords:  Astrophysics
Comment:  to appear in Publication of Astronomical Observatory of Belgrade, Serbia
Bibliographic Code: 2008arXiv0801.1331N

Ove von Spaeth:  "La datation de la plus ancienne carte des étoiles égyptienne".
          Résumé / Abstract:  Cet article reprend les éléments qui ont permis d'accéder à une datation précise de la plus ancienne carte des étoiles.
          Mots-clés français / French Keywords:  Egypte ; Etoile ; Astronomie ; Zodiaque ; Antiquité-16 ; Datation ;

          Titre du document:  Dating the Oldest Egyptian star map = La datation de la plus ancienne carte des étoiles égyptienne.  -  Revue / Journal Title:  Centaurus
          Auteur(s) / Author(s):  OVE VON SPAETH (1) ; Affiliation(s) du ou des auteurs / Author(s) Affiliation(s):  (1) Zenith I.C., P.O. Box 1096, 1009 Copenhagen, DANEMARK
          Source / Source:  Centaurus 2000, vol. 42, no3, pp. 159-179 (1 p.1/4).  -  ISSN 0008-8994
          Editeur / Publisher:  Blackwell, Oxford, ROYAUME-UNI (1950) (Revue). Langue / Language:  Anglais.  -  English Keywords:  Egypt ; Star ; Astronomy ; Zodiac ; Antiquity-16 ; Dating ;
          Mots-clés espagnols:  Egipto ; Estrella ; AstronomÍa ; Zodiaco ; Antigüedad-s. 16 ;

INIST Diffusion, - Service Clients,  2 allée du parc de Brabois,  F-54514 Vandoeuvre-lès-Nancy Cedex  - Tél : +33 (0) 3 83 50 46 64  -  Courriel : infoclient@inist.fr  -  http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1146404

Localisation / Location:  INIST-CNRS, Cote INIST : 23143, 35400009116675.0010
Copyright 2007 INIST-CNRS. All rights reserved. Toute reproduction ou diffusion même partielle, par quelque procédé ou sur tout support que ce soit, ne pourra être faite sans l'accord préalable écrit de l'INIST-CNRS.  Nº notice refdoc (ud4): 1146404

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancient_chronology/message/2648  - concerning :  Dating Egypt's oldest star map: http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut-files_survey_en.asp
_

#        Dating Egypt's oldest star map
Greetings all,   - Brad Sparks, in a March 12,2007 thread, here, entitled 'Babylonian Chronology", said this: - "Moreover, as with other claims of "astronomical fixing" of ancient chronology the dates were originally found by NON-astronomers publishing in non-astronomical journals long before other thousands of tablets were uncovered or studied."
          Please see the following article: - "Dating Egypt's oldest star map" "New Discovery In the World's Oldest Star Map" http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut1-mapdate_en.asp
          There is a 3500 year old Egyptian star map on the tomb of the great Senmut (Senenmut) ---- a star map containing a planetary and star road map in Involving a solar eclipse. Such an alignment, the article argues, can be used for dating purposes.
          I would like to direct Brad and everyone to a section of this website, "Evaluations, response, reviews", which has snippets from about 40 different reviewers, many of which are astronomers.
          "This revelation is the result of investigations by Danish researcher Ove von Spaeth, and is published in July-August 2000 in vol. 42 of the international journal of the history of science, "Centaurus". - i.e: "Centaurus International Magazine of the History of Mathematics, Science, and Technology" 42;3, 2000, pp.159-179.

          The website says only that this solar eclipse occurred in May, 1534bc ( "-1533" astronomical time). I found the exact date of this solar eclipse, using the 'computer program' on the online planetarium at:  www.skyviewcafe.com , on May 21, -1533 (1534bc).
          The star map has, in this order :  Venus, Mercury, Saturn, Jupiter, Sirius (a star in Canis Major), Sun&Moon Solar eclipse in Orion, and Mars. - What do you all think?
          FWIW, on May 20 (or 21st (depending on your location on the earth), 1534bc; Mercury, Jupiter and Venus are in the constellation Gemini, Sun&Moon are in Orion's hand. Saturn is in Taurus. Mars is in Capricornus.
          They appear in that order along the ecliptic (the planetary 'road'). The star 'Sirius', though well off the road, would appear to fit between 'Jupiter' and the 'Sun&Moon'.
          At the time of the above eclipse, you could not see all of the above planets. THere was a point in that day where you could perhaps see all of them, however, Mars was on one horizon and the others were on the other.

          The critics, of Ove von Spaeth, argue that while there was a solar eclipse in some parts of the world on May 1534bc; there was no such eclipse in Egypt. So, I started looking for an eclipse, visible from Cairo Egypt. The following is a list of eclipses or 'close' elipses that I found, which were visible in Egypt:  July 31, -1564;  May 30, -1561;  Nov 24, -1561;  Sept 11 -1557;  Nov 3, -1551;  Apr 29, -1550;  Feb 15, -1546;  April 20, -1541;  Mar 29, -1539;  Jan 26, -1536;  July 11, -1535;  Nov 25, -1534;
          May 9th, 1533bc at 17:55pm :  Jupiter in Cancer;  Mars and Mercury in Gemini;  Saturn was in Orion's hand;  Venus was NOT visible during any portion of the eclipse, but it was
close by, near Pisces.
          April 20, 1523bc 9:48am :  an 'almost' total solar eclipse visible from Cairo, Egypt.
Some other dates which might be worth looking into.... August 2, -1518;  July 22, -1517;  May 20, -1514;  Sept 12 -1511;  Sept 2, -1510;

          It is my GUESS that this is NOT a snapshot of the planets during the time of the eclipse. IOW, not all of the planets were visible during the eclipse or subsequent night. No doubt, some of them (maybe most of them) were visible during the eclipse.
          But say, you were to look at the sky "map", throughout the eclipse, and throughout the nite. And image the planetary path, i.e. ecliptic through the sky as being like a straight road on the map. Imagine the planets are like towns in a certain country, the countries, of which are akin to the constellations. You would see that the Venus is on one side of the map, and Mars on the other. As you scanned this "road map" from left to right, you would see the above planets, star, and SUN&MOON in the order given above. - I'll take some time to verify that above GUESS.
          Toby, - "zoe_lithoi" <zoe_lithoi@...> - Jan 21, 2008, 6:12 pm - http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancient_chronology/message/2648

_ _ _

#        Re: Dating Egypt's oldest star map
After a quick look I did not see how a solar eclipse in May 1534 BC fits with a planetary conjunction of Feb-March 1537 BC or how they are related.
          Ove von Spaeth is not an astronomer, but is an historical writer and researcher. I didn't see any astronomers conducting a thorough astronomical investigation of von Spaeth's claims.
          Astronomers do not use Gregorian proleptic dates because of an ambiguity in back calculating what Pope Gregory's commission intended or actually decided, so astronomers use Julian calendar days proleptically.
          Fundamentally it is at present impossible to determine whether a solar eclipse path passed over Egypt in 1534 BC or any other dates in the mid-2nd millennium BC because the Delta-T correction for cumulative and unpredictable changes in the slowing of earth's rotation cannot be retrocalculated accurately enough to do so. Only by establishing a century-by-century record of accurate eclipse observations to the present can the Delta-T factor be determined for the era around 1500 BC, and no such record is currently available from around 1500 BC forward.
          Brad, rb47x@...  - Jan 23, 2008, 3:53 am - http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancient_chronology/message/2652

_ _ _

#        Re: Dating Egypt's oldest star map

Brad wrote: - "Only by establishing a century-by-century record of accurate eclipse observations to the present can the Delta-T factor be determined for the era around 1500 BC, and no such record is currently available from around 1500 BC forward."

Brad, perhaps you are not familiar with Morrison and Stephenson's recent article, published in 2004. - "Morrison, L.V. & Stephenson, F.R., "Historical Values of the Earth&#65533;s Clock Error Delta T and the Calculation of Eclipses", Journal for the History of Astronomy, Vol. 35 Part 3, August 2004, No. 120 (2004), pages 327&#65533;336." Nasa recognizes them as astronomers.... how about you?
          The Nasa website says:  "Values of delta T before AD 1600 pre-date the telescope and are based on historic records of naked eye observations of eclipses and occultations. A number of researchers have made significant contributions in this area. In particular, Morrison and Stephenson (2004) have fit hundreds of records with simple polynomials to achieve a best fit for describing the value of &#916;T from 700 BCE to 1600 CE.
          An abbreviated table of their results follows:.... Values for &#916;T in the past and future are uncertain but may be approximated by extrapolating from known values. However, the further into the past or future that one extrapolates, the greater the uncertainty in &#916;T. "  http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/SEhelp/deltaT.html

      I wanted to use some Nasa data to test out the online planetarium at www.skyviewcafe.com.
I chose one of the most famous lunar eclipses of all time, namely: Eclipse before Arbela battle of Alexander the Great.  2 Greek writers write of this battle: Arrian and Diodorus. One reason this eclipse is so famous, is that some 'chaldean' astronomers predicted it would happen, and when their prediction came true Alexander the Great (who won the battle), translated their work.
          This eclipse is mentioned in the Astronomical Diaries. (lots of tablets containing astrological data from Babylon, the oldest tablet dates back to 652/651;
          the youngest to 61/60 BCE.). It says:  " Month Ulûlu, day 13: There was a lunar eclipse. It was completely covered at the moment when Jupiter set and Saturn rose. [..