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Ove von Spaeth
History and Knowledge:
Rediscovery, Insight, Renewal
1  DEBATE, MANIFESTATIONS, AND NEWS CONCERNING THE BOOK-SERIES ON HISTORICAL MOSES
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¤ Myspace.com Blogs - The Knights Templar's Knowledge from Egypt , 25 April 2007  -  references:
Secret Knowledge and Mysteries of Antiquity

          Myspace.com Blogs

The legendary Knights Templar were a military, monastic order with their main centre at Bernard de Clairvaux's base in the east of France, and with Jerusalem as an important pole.
          For some centuries the Knights Templar had an amazing cultural and large-scale financial influence in Europe. It is believed that they had attained a special knowledge of biblical and ancient Oriental traditions, from Egypt - and from Moses.
          However, they suddenly disappeared from history. Later, parts of the old tradition were observed still to be in existence inside other societies and brotherhoods. Concerning their secret knowledge and mysteries of antiquity - cf. the entire article: "The Knights Templar's Knowledge from Egypt - and Moses", by Ove von Spaeth, writer, historian, independent researcher, - (www.moses-egypt.net)  

Myspace.com Blogs, April 1, 2007 - Sunday - http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=9999353&blogID=248266773   -  (1.Apr.2007)

       
Sidetop
¤ Holisticum.dk, December 2007  -  reference:
The World Mirror

Holisticum teaching is not religious or advocating any specific religious direction within the established religions or other alternative methods, theories or ways of thinking.

          The principles of Holisticum teaching is: the basic values of the comprehensive view. The cosmic principle - the road to all recognitions. Jacob Noerkov Friis says, "... Do not look for the truth - it is already here - ". Key subjects:  the centre of the source.  The movement of consciousness through experiences of dimensions and frequencies.  The world mirror opens up and becomes an integrated part of us, and we can react to this which IS.

Links to:  writers & artists
www.holisticum.dk/component/option,com_weblinks/catid,18/Itemid,77/
          Galleri Herand, Layout & Photographer  =  www.herand.dk
          Ulla Runchel, Writer, Futurist  =  www.forvandlingskuglen.webbyen.dk
          Birgitte & Per Fich, Spiritual picture art  =  www.birgittefich.dk
          Ove von Spaeth, Writer, Researcher  =  www.moses-egypt.net

Jacob Noerkov Friis, founder and responsible for Holisticum, - The House Innanna, Nordre Frihavnsgade 17 D, 2100 Copenhagen Ö, - www.holisticum.dk/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1  -  (Dec.2007)

¤ Contribution, 1 June 2008  -  view :
A dazzling skilled writer

I just read your wonderfully well-written article on ''Nostradamus - and the new millennium'' - at Thirax.dk. A great well done - how it is well written.
          I swallow everything you write, now your text on Freud and Moses - Ove, you are a dazzling skilled writer. Useful that you knew the anthropologist of incredible knowledge, Prince Peter. And the often controversial editor-in-chief Victor Andreasen, I had even a good knowledge of him.
          Your article on Moses and the alchemists - it was extremely interesting reading, which can move me from the garden and the sun, into the computer.

          Also your article on reincarnation, I discovered it and went on reading - again, from here it sounds sincere thanks for the outcome. Your acquaintance with heraldic expert Sven Tito Achen has been very useful, he was a great expert, who is still regarded with really respect. A kind of also your private information presented together with the subject has given me a much food for thought.
          Personally, I have even researched my own family tree, but has been met with deep contempt from the so-called genealogists. But, unfortunately, I do not expect any change in attitude because jealousy can also be seen often in the research, among genealogists is the very widespread in "the circle of the so-called omniscient people''. You know of similar experiences from the Carsten Niebuhr Institute. I do not have had enough energy to tell the "genealogists" that my name has never been Hans Bertelsen, and I permit them to finally write whatever they want. Wicked degrading gossip could you not stop anyway, and I can just say, ''against stupidity even gods fought in vain''.

Hans Anckarstjerna, journalist, - h.anckarstjerna@gmail.comblog  -  (1.Jun.2008)

       
Sidetop
¤ Tiamat Resources, dianna.padgett-online.com, Summer 2008  -  references:
Becoming Manifest Transformation

Dianna Padgett:  Becoming Manifest Transformation, - A Qabalistic and Egyptian Analysis of the Formula of Creation As found in Genesis 1-4.
          'V I AMR', or 'Becoming Manifest Transformation', is the numeric-based translation of the first four chapters of Genesis taken letter-by-letter. Moses employs the motif of the seed-bearing plant, or the H'ShMIM, which has, within it, all the elements necessary for the expression of the growth of reality out of potential, and the directive 'Force of Will.'
          It describes the very simple, yet powerful, process of the active use of reception which initiates the 'Primum Mobil,' or 'First Movement.'
          In these 4 chapters, the 'Tree of Life' is defined 3 times via the use of the phrase 'V I AMR,' which define the Sephiroth. There is an analysis of the Sephiroth revealed in this manner in the commentary, as well as an analysis of the letters and the way Moses used them. Also in the commentary is a comparative analysis of Moses' text and the Egyptian Creation Myth, which describes the way reality works. The engine that runs reality is perception and the duality of the seer and the seen. This duality is a reflection of the 'Not' and the 'Is,' in that the True Self (the Seer) is at home in the Not and perception creates the Is.

Tiamat Resources:
          Home - Becoming Manifest Transformation
Manuscripts:
          Sumerian Creation Myth
          The Thunder, Perfect Mind
          Dance of Jesus
Books:
          Astrological Books
          Aleister Crowley
          Dion Fortune
          Sacred Geometry
Links:
          Isis Books and Gifts, Denver, CO
OVE VON SPAETH's intriguing books on the historical Moses
The Qabalah:
          Resh - The Sun Card
          Thoughts on the Tetragrammaton
          Deities
          Sepheroth

Dianna Padgett, Writer, Researcher, - For Information on Qabalah Classes:
dianna@padgett-online.com  -  http://dianna.padgett-online.com  - & - http://www.geocities.com/dianna217.geo/home.htm  -  (Spring,2008)

"Becoming Manifest Transformation: A Qabalistic and Egyptian Analysis of Formula of Creation" - Copyright: Dianna Padgett, 2006, paperback, 274 pages,
ISBN 978-0-8059-9104-8 $24.00, www.rosedogbookstore.com/bematrqaande.html - & - www.amazon.ca/Becoming-Manifest-Transformation-Qabalistic-Egyptian/dp/0805991042. - E-book edition: This book is also available for download as an E-Book in Adobe Acrobat (.pdf) format. ISBN 0-8059-9104-2 [E-book] $19.00.

¤ readers letter, 'Freud og Moses', April 1st, 2007 - references:
Freud, Moses, and the proto-religious picture

Your new Freud-Moses project is fabulous. I have read your text with pleasure and benefit, and I fully understand that it had to be published. It is eminent, and you deal with something extremely exciting and fascinating - of interest to all reflecting people.
          The subjects ARE very important and the material of prime interest. Unique! Stimulation begins with the first word, and your subject is fluid nitro-glycerine to the brain of an inquisitive reader. Bravo. Your interdisciplinary comprehension is your mark and your force. Personally, I am so infatuated with the proto-religious picture that our lives are an inner dream of the Almighty!

Bjorn Andersen, MA and Adjunct lecturer in Literary criticism and Linguistic science at Copenhagen University, Journalist DJF, former Programme Editor at the Danish National Television - biorn@mail.dk -  (25.Nov.2007)

¤ hans.wyrdweb.eu, 1 May 2008  -  on research:
Final Proof of the Theory of Freud concerning Moses

Constable Research BV - also trying to decrypt the Codes of Ancient Civilizations. I am getting closer and closer to the Essentials. To find the code I have to move from civilization to civilization and compare their Myths and Symbols.
_

Search How Akhenaton started the Age of Aquarius at the Wrong Moment and created the Jewish Religion by Accident
          Akhenaton (1300 BC), married to the beautiful Nefertiti, reformed the state religion of Egypt in a very rigorous way. In that time the main deity was named Amen. Out of the blue Amenhotep adopted an old deity called Aten and changed everything.
          He not only changed his name (his old name was Amenhotep IV) but he also erased Amen from all the inscriptions of the capital Thebes and built a new capital to the north of Thebes called Akhetaten, the place where Aten rises.
          The powerful priests of Amen (or Ammon) did not like this move and revolted. The priests of Aten were expelled of Egypt and fled to Palestine. The leader of this expedition was one of the high priests of Ahktnaton called Ra-Mose. The mother of Ahkhnaton was Tiye. She was the daughter of the Chief Minister of his Father, Yuga.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhenaten

          In 1939 Sigmund Freud published a book called "Moses and Monotheism". In this book Freud argues that Moses was the High Priest of Akhenaten. Yuga, the father of his wife is the Jewish patriarch Joseph and his high priest Ra-Mose is the Moses of the Old Testament.
          In Moses and Monotheism, Freud claims that Ra-Moses only led his close followers into freedom and that they subsequently killed Moses in a rebellion. Freud explains that years after the murder of Moses, the rebels formed a religion which promoted Moses as the Saviour of the Israelites. This religion was a mixture of the worship of Aten and Zoroaster (Mithras). Maitreya is the Hindu-variant of Mithras:
The Final Proof of the Theory of Freud.
http://www.moses-egypt.net/book-series/debat-continuing-c_en.asp 

Hans Konstapel, - Contributed by hans on Tue, 01/04/2008 - 19:29.  hans's blog  - http://hans.wyrdweb.eu/how-akhenaton-started-age-aquarius-wrong-moment-and-created-jewish-religion-accident  -  (1.May.2008)

       
Sidetop
¤ Letter - 25 November 2008  -  opinion: 
On alchemy and Moses, - erudition

           I read with interest your text - about 'alchemy mysteries with Moses, Tycho Brahe, Newton, and Jung' - all of which holds great erudition and insight.

Johannes Fabricius, Dr.med et Phil., Professor Ph.D. at Blaagaard National College for Teachers, Copenhagen  -  (25.Nov.2008)

¤ Reader's mail, 15 December 2007  -  opinion: 
Provides a new way of looking at things

It is a very good work you have created about "Freud and Moses - and another view of history". I have read it through and find many interesting topics, including on Dalai Lama and Prince Peter, the ethnographer. But there are much more which I could point out.
           It is my strong impression that these texts are genuine research and that you totally are in command of the matters when you are writing. You write in a special manner which in a sense is of the old ideal, yet contemporary, I do not know exactly how I should express it. You use a special technique and providing a new way of looking at things. At the same time it is genuine fine research also with such an extremely richness of sources and references, and he is in total control of the matters when he writes. It is unique.
          New circumstances might suggest that the next step is that in research there will be involved more of the spiritual side. It is here, there, and everywhere in your writings, but there are perspectives that something more comprising will come up at a certain time.
          Moses is not a myth. Moses was obviously a man who has lived and has formed a new religion through which humanity was to develop new human sides. Yes, great knowledge of Moses is found in your texts, and great skills in both writing and research are very much present, and delivery of results is always carried out substantially. Here you may indeed be a happy soul. Good luck with this unique work.

Merete Gundersen, Writer, Senior Lecturer, and Publisher, - www.siqintelligens.dk -  (15.Dec,2007)

¤ grahamhancock.com/phorum - 24 August 2009  -  discussion : 
Interested in an other view of Moses

Graham Hancock - Phorum - Mysteries
_

>>iroquois warrior wrote:    I believe that the spiritual and historical accounts or storytelling were not divided in Egypt and therefore to be "victorious" in a story or account is also a religious story. Bull worship/cow worship was indicative of the age of Taurus - so to include the pyramids (perhaps unfinished at the time??) is relative to both the visual/religious significance of both the pyramid and the gods themselves. It tells a story as a point in time.
          As for Moses-I, like Sigmund Freud and other earlier scholars (and some new writers on the subject) believe him to actually be the expelled follower of Akhenaten.

Mnjahhnah, but if you're interested in an other view of Moses just start here:
http://www.moses-egypt.net/book1/moses1-cap1_en.asp
and:
http://www.moses-egypt.net/book-series/ovs_related-articles-c_en.asp

martinpescatore, -  Date: 24-Aug-09 08:22 - (87.55.33.---)  -  http://www.grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=271160&t=270381   - (24.Aug.2009)

¤ Research data and documentation, the Zenith Project - Jan. 2000 - debate on history: 
A Biblical research which rejected Moses
By  OVE VON SPAETH


Academic Theories Contra Historical Reality

Many researchers believe that biblical texts cannot be used as source material for historical purposes. However, the problem more likely stems from insufficient historical knowledge.
          It was fatal to the study of the Bible's specific information about Moses that, especially in philological research, academic hypotheses as to how the biblical texts were created, were developed prior to scientific archaeological excavations, analyses, and conclusive findings. As a consequence this unfortunate starting point led in an increasingly mistaken direction. (All this is further elaborated on in a 'The 70-Item Catalogue on Biblical Research' - in my book, "The Secret Religion", pp. 310-340).
          Around the late 1800's, theological researchers and historians began experimenting by making "models" and reconstructing a creation and development of the texts - and to when their formation might have taken place. But it was derived from hypotheses and assumptions mainly based on textual material alone. This - rarely recognized - one-sidedness naturally made sufficiently critical and qualified judgment of the then-available data almost impossible. The problem is that this background was forgotten little by little and many ideas from these provisional models almost became assumed as "the truth".


Research Rested Too Long

It was claimed by the German theologian, Orientalist, and Semitic scholar, Julius Wellhausen (1844-1918) that the biblical texts had been subjected to alterations or had been adapted and, in particular, pieced together from old sources.
          For more than hundred years an extreme version of Wellhausen's hypothesis on such alleged text division - later represented as the Berlin School or the German School - continued to have quite a dominating influence on many researchers' and non-researchers' perception of the texts. In various ways it still influences much biblical information in encyclopaedias and literature - for instance, a claim that the Bible contained six Books of the Pentateuch, established by including the Book of Joshua, became also a fashionable "truth" for many years.
          This German School's increasingly complex method of classifying the biblical texts, the so-called "documentary'"theory, is based on, among other things, the idea that because that double names and descriptions of the Israelite god appear in the texts as well as double versions of events, territories, and laws, these texts must necessarily stem from different sources. As this seemed very convincing viewed from that angle, the problem was that much of the biblical research on such points found repose to some degree through the succeeding century.


Egyptian Background of the Name 'Moses'

For instance, Sigmund Freud had exposed the theologians' and historians' refraining from taking it into more serious consideration that 'Moses' was an Egyptian name. It should even be added that the hitherto widespread interpretation of the words in the biblical text where the name Moses is claimed to have been a Hebrew play on words strangely enough implies that Pharaoh's Daughter mastered the Hebrew language - even to the extent of being able to make puns in this foreign language.
          In Hebrew, Moses is called Moshe, which according to the biblical text of the Book of Exodus (2:10) is, word for word, understood to play on the assumption that Pharaoh's Daughter named him thus, "because she had drawn him out of the water".
          However, the Egyptologists and historians specializing in Egypt, e.g. James Henry Breasted, Alan H. Gardiner, and Eduard Meyer have confirmed at an early stage that the name Moses was not Hebrew but stems from Egyptian usage.
          In addition, the "Jüdisches Lexikon" ('Hebrew Dictionary', the Herlitz & Kirschner's editions) says on the subject "Moses as a name" that the biblical influenced explanation concerning the claimed Hebrew name Moshe (Moses) should mean 'he who is being drawn out of the water' is a misunderstanding:
                    "... it is completely impossible to harmonize the active form of the Hebrew word - as Moshe (Moses) can only mean 'he who draws out'. ..."
          The Hebrew play on words in the Bible has been created from meshitihua, meaning 'he draws out' - where consequently the word "he" cannot indicate that Pharaoh's Daughter drew him out of the water.
          Thus, the Hebrew biblical text includes an impossible play on words on the name Moses, all of which means that this cannot have been the idea of the original narrative. The situation indicates that Pharaoh's Daughter had ceremonially given the boy the same pharaoh-name as that of her father, and later of her husband, and also her nephew (and his son). All were/became pharaohs - i.e. Tuth-mosis, of which this purely Egyptian name Moses (mosis) is the last part.
          This abbreviated form - which was common usage in Egypt - was thus consistently based on the names of a number of pharaohs all bearing this sovereign name at that time.


Egyptian Source Documentation on Moses

Many researchers adopted the attitude that Abraham and Moses are pure fiction, and that the exodus never took place - and most of the Bible consists of fictional, national-ideological narratives set in a 'patchwork' of religious backgrounds; everything invented by the Jewish priests ca. 300 BC.
          But what is totally ignored is that the Tell el-Amarna letters of the archives (found in 1887) of the pharaohs Amenhotep III and Akhenaton state that the city princes and governors in Canaan - at that time dominated by Egypt - for a period of some 20 years asked Egypt for help against the intruding Apiru people, i.e. the Hebrews:  the number of years is in accordance with the Bible's precise description stating that the invasion took place over a period of 21 years.
          The corresponding probable time of the Hebrew-Israelite invasion has also been rejected, however on an insufficient basis. This is also the case regarding the archaeological excavations of Jericho having reveiled the collapse of the city walls (with evident traces of an earthquake), dating ca. 1415 BC - all exactly as in the biblical narrative, which also mentions the house of Rahab on top of the wall, and a burning down of the city, and the prior looting of all metal objects (the Book of Joshua, 6:19 and 6:24). The archaeologists did really find houses upon the wall and remains of actual fires arranged to burn down the city, together with the fact that precisely this city only (specific layer, also with finds of seals with names of contemporary Pharaoh Amenhotep III) - among all the many ancient Jerichoes built on top of each other - was totally robbed of all kinds of metal.


Egyptian Gods - and the Bible

Furthermore, the otherwise obvious consequences have not been taken notice of, concerning the many genuine Egyptian names in Moses' circles. Besides his own name Moses, 'child', also to be seen are e.g. Jethro, 'the River Nile', - Miriam, 'loved by Amun', - Aaron, 'great is the name' (i.e. of Osiris), - Aaron's son El-eazer, 'Osiris-god' (el, 'god', is a Semitic addition), - Aaron's successor and grandson Phinehas, 'Negro', 'Ethiopian', - Merari,'greatly loved', - Hopni, 'river(god-name)'. Also a word for 'truth' in Hebrew, emeth, is the name of the Egyptian goddess for truth, Maat, - and numerous other examples of Egyptian origin exist.
          Moses was the first known founder of a religion. This later world religion demands, "You shall not have other gods". And yet so many in the groups close to Moses had Egyptian names connected with Egyptian gods.

          Besides what the Bible mentions about Yahweh in connection with the moon - as by Yahweh's full moon festival (i.e. Easter) and Mount Sinai (East-Semitic for 'Moon' Mountain) - the name Yahweh sounds identical to the Egyptians' name for the Moon and the moon god.
          When Egyptian queens, especially in the 18th dynasty, were initiated as the "god's wife", this was often manifested by the fact, the several of the royal successors and their queens were given names with the prefix Yah, i.e. the Egyptian name for the 'Moon' or the 'moon god' is pronounced Yahu, Iao, or Yahw. Cf. "Jah/Ah" in Erman & Grapow's "Wörterbuch der Aegyptischen Sprache" (Band 1, 1925, p. 42).
          It is included in the names of at least five of Queen Hatshepsut's nearest royal ancestors, for example Yamesis, i.e. 'child of the Moon', and Yahhotpe, i.e. 'the Moon's joy' known respectively as Ahmose and Ahotep in later attempts at reproducing the names).
          Thus the name for the Egyptians' Moon and the moon god Yah or Yhw looks as almost identical with the pronunciation of the name of the Israelite god Yahweh, which in Hebrew, e.g. in Exodus (17:16), is often spelled Yah.
          By the Egyptians the Moon and moon god was called Yah, while in Hebrew the Moon is among other things called Yareah or Yareach. The name's last part is Hebrew arach, 'the walker' - and the first part is still Yah: Yahweh.


Egyptian Language in the Bible

Of the overwhelming number of examples of the authenticity problems concerning the academic researchers' hypotheses, a few are mentioned here:
          1.  Although the Bible has 3-4 Hebrew words for 'linen/cotton' (e.g. bad, peshet, and sadin) the Egyptian word shesh (shesn) is used 38 times, of which 34 passages with this word are in the Pentateuch, but is nevertheless claimed to belong to a so-called late priest-source ("P-source"). But why should the priests avoid the words of their own Hebrew biblical language as if they were Egyptological linguistic historians?
          2.  The designation pharaoh (per-ao, 'the great house') was only used in Egypt for 'king' at the time of Moses and until 900 BC, when the usage was reduced to only being included in the ceremonial titles of the king. However, if the Pentateuch was only written one thousand years after the event, which Jewish readers could then be expected to be able to understand this obsolete Egyptian word?
          3.  Why should anyone invent a mythical figure, Moses, for these Jews of later times - and with this purely Egyptian name?
          4.  According to many scholars, these Jews of later times in Israel mostly spoke Aramaic. Why then were the books of the Pentateuch written in ancient Hebrew which in daily use apparently was severely declining after 600 BC?
          5.  How can the Samaritans' Bible hold an almost identical text about Moses - written in even older writing than that of the Jewish Bible in the version from Babylonian times ca. 400 BC - if the Jewish priests, who were often the competitors (even sometimes enemies) of the Samaritans, only "invented" the Bible in 400-200 BC? Therefore, researchers have also had to claim that the Samaritan Bible is a very late construction.
          6.  The idea about one (creator) god is documented in Egypt - around 1450 BC for instance (at the time of Moses) - and much earlier too, i.e. not invented by Jewish priests in 300 BC.
          7.  In the Pentateuch the pact/treaty with Yahweh was formulated in a way which was typical of treaties in 1400 BC of the Middle East, for instance also by the Hittites. - And:
          8.  Censuses mentioned in the Pentateuch are based directly on the Egyptian pattern of the same period: both conditions unlikely to be created a thousand years later.
          - So, at a distance of several thousand years, it is thus claimed by some influential schools of research that they know more about the texts than the writers who once wrote them.
 

A 'knowledge filter' making the Egyptian Factor invisible

The Bible does not identify itself as a being historically-critical account, but may yet be a real source. On many occasions the theologians' research has only rarely been able to analyse archaeology and history in a sufficiently professional way. For instance, they have firmly maintained that double names and descriptions - like Yahweh/El, Jacob/Israel and double reproductions of events, territories, and law texts - should prove that quite many sources have been incorporated into one.
          If only the researchers in question had known that double forms were common and appreciated already in the oldest texts of the Middle East in names, references of events, and in songs - as proved e.g. by Lévi-Strauss, the structuralist: in Babylonia and Egypt and among the Hittites the names of kings and gods are very often seen in double forms.
          Although strongly contradicted by many new findings and discoveries, it is still often being claimed that the Bible should only be seen as a purely literary poem or work of fiction. But many times in the Pentateuch it is clearly stated that Moses himself is the writer. The assumed later alterations and additions do not necessarily deprive Moses of this authorship of the basic texts. But many researchers have considered text alterations and possible modifications of older expressions as confirmation that the entire text stemmed from the much later times of the modernized expressions.
          As for historical plausibility of the oldest parts of the Bible, i.e. the Pentateuch, biblical research has generally neglected the fact that these texts can give specific information about individuals, times and sites - i.e. exactly as required for legal evidence in court - contrary to legends and folk-tales, where these factors are unclear. Researchers who at an early stage were on a better track, which for instance was in better agreement with archaeology, can still be seen rejected with the non-argument that "they are obsolete".
          The Rabbinical Writings - with their vast, ancient collection of biblically related texts of which the oldest parts are of the same age as the oldest parts the Bible - are an absolute necessity for the understanding of so many, also Egyptian circumstances referred to in the Bible, all of which is often ignored by researchers of the Bible and of history as well.
          Offshoots of the German School - also in an Anglo-Saxon and Scandinavian framework, as for instance the so-called "the Copenhagen School" which deprives Moses of all historical identity - have omitted to observe the Egyptian factor although it is among the most important elements in the understanding of many claimed textual discrepancies. A "knowledge filter" has been created that automatically filters everything out which is not in accordance with prevailing theories; but down-to-earth critics would call it 'killing history'!
          But the huge material published in the book-series "Assassinating Moses" - in contrast to the orthodox research's more extreme view with a non-historical Moses - has factually all the way through been able clearly to demonstrate Moses' intimate connection with especially the Egyptian universe.

Ove von Spaeth, writer, researcher, - A brief survey concerning archaeological and textual source traces on Moses; - with texts and data from this author's book-series, "Assassinating Moses", - documentation published via Zenith IC Project  - (Jan.2000)


Cf. also documentation on the historical dates:  A More Precise Dating of Moses

       
Sidetop
¤ Reference  - 1 November 2008  -  survey: 
Most comprehensive religious-cultural research ever in its genre

          "... Regarding Ove von Spaeth's book-series about the historical Moses and Egypt: it comprises 25 years of concentrated research and the results - released through 5 unique works and in addition a special dissertation, the pioneering work on dating the world's oldest star map (Egyptian). In all, it the most ambitious undertaking of research in the genre of religious-cultural and historical studies... it is also the most comprehensive interdisciplinary science project in this field carried out by a single individual. …"

Hans Baron Anckarstjerna, Historian, Editor-in-chief, DJF, - formerly Swedano Journal  - (1.Nov.2008)

¤ wikipedia.org, wiki "on Moses" - 4 August 2009  - preliminary text: 
Uncontroversial story

Maybe from Ove von Spaeth's analysis of Egyptian star maps from 1534 BCE, at the website of MOSES * EGYPT * SPAETH, go to:  Google on "Ove von Spaeth", 1080 hits for the dbl blip delimited (") Ove von Spaeth, which indicates some genre-related reknownedness.
          Actually I don't know whether von Spaeth is scientific or pseudo-scientific, maybe someone know more about this guy, and so can estimate whether his theories are mentionable or not...
          I believe the Hebrews weren't in Egypt at the time referred to in the Moses-myth. However it might occur that Hyksos were at decline and that this Mes-ses guy was forced to leave together with the Semites around Hyksos,  ... said: Rursus (mbork²) 13:59, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
          Section 5 for a sketch of the story involving Hatshepsut as the real mother of Moses. Actually I'm not sure that the Hyksos are involved in that drama, ... said: Rursus (mbork³) 14:47, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
          Eeh, uuh! Forget about Hyksos in this context. Ove von Spaeth claims that Moses was Senmut, son of Hatshepsut, probably son of Iteru/Jethro at the pharaoh court, but outmanouvered by his cousin Thutmose III who got the support of the priests, while Moses was symbolically executed and forced into exile at the Sinai peninsula. But Moses reappeared repeatedly, using Hebrew guest workers as his allies. He founded, according to von Spaeth, 'Judaeism', syncretically using this-and-that concept in an Egyptian mystical framework. He probably also, according to von Spaeth, invented the Protosinaitic script. Good and pretty uncontroversial story, but impossible to evaluate without the books and their sources available,... said:

Rursus, (mbork³), - wikipedia.org, wiki "on Moses" - preliminary text  -  15:16, 
4 August 2009 (UTC)  - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AMoses  -  (4.Aug.2009)

¤ Readers opinion - 23 Februar 2008  -  commented analysis : 
He has found a new method of carrying out the research

For a number of years and with great interest I have kept myself posted regarding the author and researcher Ove von Spaeth's published works and articles on his often unconventional discoveries in the historical and astronomical field. Over the same period I have also observed a great enthusiasm justified - as well as a sometimes regular black-hearted attitude by some academic circles. Thus, a productive research which has been able to mark its value far beyond just temporal trends but currently ahead of time.
          To inform the increasing amount of readers, I think it is time to present, as seen from my own academic experience basis with literature study and also archeology and astronomy, a few impressions of Ove von Spaeth authorship of which the following two factors can stand as the most prominent:  1)  the exceptional result of his research - and  2)  his very unbiased way or process by which it is being unfold.
          Working on his historical research project the writer frequently had to cross traditional demarcations of the research areas but simultaneously carried it out in the old-fashioned systematic and analytic way with thorough examination of all details. Without Ove von Spaeth's necessary research on innumerable sources and often ignored findings we, today, would lose many major connections to information in the past.
          To every reader it is greatly beneficial that the writer's publications are currently borne along with a disclosing documentation. His books and texts contain many unique insights which could not possibly have been presented at an earlier stage. His publications are currently borne along with a disclosing documentation. His books and texts contain many unique insights which could not possibly have been presented at an earlier stage.
          Not least, his historical book-series "Assassinating Moses" is described by specialists as being breaking new ground, but when it took place that his new findings have come across other researchers' hitherto beliefs and these people could not attack his thorough documentation, it happened that they have instead turned towards the way of its presentation. This is factually the wrong way of dealing with it as we can see just by reading the various quotes, below the next lines.
          However, informative historical data can exist as hidden in ancient traditional accounts of the Rabbinical Writings from Antiquity or inlayed in "myths", - therefore, as a commencement the project deals without bias here with narratives from the times and areas in question thus considering them as relatively true, as long as they have not been counter-proved or may appear absurd - all, of course, on a basis of assessing the origin and chronology of the presented sources. Naturally, such starting point only in a successful and recognized practice was especially used by the greatest authorities of Middle Eastern archaeology as W.F. Albright, Cyrus Gordon, Yigael Yadin, and others.
- - -
          The particular style, approach, and objectives of Ove von Spaeth's research can be illustrated as perceived by experienced researchers:
          - Jens-André P. Herbener, M.A. in Comparative Religion and Semitic Philology, and Project leader of the New Scholarly Translation into Danish of the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament), has stated that "... Ove von Spaeth has invented a new method of carrying out the research ...". Also, Herbener wrote in his introduction to Ove von Spaeth's volume 1 of the Moses-series:
          "... The author's fluently rapid style should be emphasized, too. He has a rare aptitude for passing on an extremely complex and sometimes not very accessible subject matter in a vivid yet logically structured and easily understood manner. - Forming a sharp contrast to the short-sighted academics of modernity, finding in ancient literature merely words, Ove von Spaeth finds its imposing spirit, too. In other words one feels enriched as a human being, not just intellectually enlightened, when he with unusual insight and understanding explains the religious rationale behind innumerable phenomena of history as well as present time. ..."
- - -
          Other professionals, experts and executive researchers illustrate variously the author's style and method further:
"... these texts are impressive genuine research - Ove von Spaeth write in a special manner which in a sense is of the old ideal, yet contemporary, I do not know exactly how I should express it. Ove von Spaeth uses a special technique and providing a new way of looking at things. At the same time it is genuine fine research also with such an extremely richness of sources and references, and he is in total control of the matters when he writes. It is unique.
          New circumstances might suggest that the next step is that in research there will be involved more of the spiritual side. It is here, there, and everywhere in your writings, but there are perspectives that something more comprising will come up at a certain time ...", - according to Merete Gundersen, Writer, Lecturer, and Publisher.
- - -
          "... The Project description presenting the structure and goals of the entire huge project I find extremely successful, - elements and arguments refreshingly clearly presented, in fact the points are very concretely defined. As regards stylistic and structural implementing it is absolutely among some of the very best. ... His texts and articles are are so exciting, it is tempting all the time going on to read also the next line ...", - according to L. Steen Larsen, Ph.D. in History of Religions, Associate Professor at the University of Lund, Sweden, Department of History and Anthropology of Religions.
- - -
          "… super-interdisciplinary - unbelievably thorough studies. Ove von Spaeth has succeeded in presenting the results in a language and a style accessible to the man in the street. Top marks for its mediation qualities! …", - according to Ejgil Soeholm, Master of Literature Science, Chief Research Librarian, Writer.
- - -
          "... I have especially liked these features: - your exciting reading written for me and everybody, served in a way so that everything goes down voluntarily, if only the eyes and the fingers can keep the pace, and - that you weave in the sources in the text in an easily readable way - far better than a source summary ...", - according to H. Asbjorn Christensen, Brabrand.
- - -
"... in his books on Moses, I can observe at least three layers - one layer for general orientating reading - another for readers with particular interest - and a third one for a deeper understanding of knowledge, and perhaps additional perspectives. It felt like a major feature, even deliberately done ...", - according to Ulla Runchel, Writer, Researcher of future, - Rancho de la Luz, Mijas, Spain.
- - -
          "... the books about Moses, truly a revolutionary work. - A stringent, disciplined work - and it reads like an exciting novel; an epoch-making interpretation! ...", - according to Jes P. Asmussen, Ph.D. et Theology, Professor, at the Carsten Niebuhr Department of Near Eastern Studies, University of Copenhagen.
- - -
          "... As it is apparently not uncommon among many other readers of the Moses book-series, I also read these works several times, not least because I have discovered that each new view further gives considerable information and understanding. I am breathless over its meticulous research and the logical and startling conclusions. - Truly overwhelming because the books are bulging of exciting stories, a plethora of interesting material. I am thrilled infinitely much, because of the content and also for a talent of a storyteller far beyond the ordinary. I am simply deeply impressed ...", - according to Erik Ansvang, Writer, Lecturer, Course Instructor, Guide for Egypt-touring.
- - -
          "... An excellent exciting insight. I freely admit that I even have read it all through several times. It was a thoroughly sound experience. I just sit back with an incredible sense of a truly fascinating text - a pure pleasure to read ...", - according to Jens Jorgensen, MA Historian, Author, former Headmaster.
- - -
          Here, the important statement from Ove von Spaeth should be included, concerning that he do not claim that his theories for his discoveries are finally proven, but he "... places many finds for the first time in a wider context and also presents a long string of valuable clues and indications; these may be considered a "special offer" to further research ..."
- - -
          Finally the undersigned wish to present my own quote on the author's approach:
          "... In his intense and comprehensive studies of star knowledge in Ancient Egypt, Mr. Ove von Spaeth has succeeded in wringing out so far unknown information of the oldest star map of the world. - And last but not least:  in addition to his meticulous research and his ability to understand events and religious life of ancient times, Mr. Ove von Spaeth is a marvellous narrator. He makes us turn things upside down once again. And we really need that! ..."

Bjorn Andersen, MA in literature and linguistics, Adjunct lecturer at the Copenhagen University, Writer, Journalist DJF, and former Programme Editor at the Danish Broadcast and National Television

¤ Blog - 17 08 2009  - Turkish blog: 
Musa, - Misir

Seviyesiz Siyaset
Münevver Düşmanı, Seviyesiz Blog
"Tarihte Osman Gazi hakkında bildiklerimiz gerçekten çok az. Belirsizlikler, adının "Osman" olmasından başlıyor. "Ataman" olma ihtimali ciddiyetle tartışıldı. Ama gerçek tarihçilerin tartıştığı bu konular, neyse ki, kitlelere ulaşmıyor. Her şeyi ispat eden sinir bozucu bir tarihçi yüzünden tarihi "Atamanoğlu İmparatorluğu" diye yeni baştan yazmak zorunda kaldığımızı bir hayal edin. Ama "Osman" adını kendi torunları da yadırgamadığına göre tasası bize düşmedi."¹  - Belge, Murat, 2008, "Genesis: "Büyük Ulusal Anlatı" ve Türklerin Kökeni". İstanbul: İletişim Yayınları, s.87

Osman, -  www.seviyesizsiyaset.com/2009/08/osman -  17 08 2009

- - -
responses to "Osman"

......Mısır kaynaklarında Batılı tarihçilerin istediği bulguları Musa'nın hikayesini doğrulayacak ipuçları vermeye başlamıştır..   (...'some western historians have found some concrete information (confirming hints) from Egyptian sources concerning history of Moses was correct' ...)

http://www.moses-egypt.net/book1/moses1-inform_en.asp

- tabi bu spekülatif bir konu olmaya devam edecektir. Fakat yukardaki linler tarihl ilgilenenler için oldukça ilgi çekici olabilir.   (...'this subject will continue to speculative. But you can use the link which could be very interesting for those people who are related with history study'...)

Azgın Demokrat, - (16:44:14) : 17 08 2009

¤ knights templar pictures  -  autumn 2008  -  info archives: 
Knights templar interest

Back photo gallery - Compatibility with Christianity, the anti-Masonic party, Freemasonry & the Knights Templar. 
_

Almost few years after the pope burned their leader at the stake, the knights templar are back or are they? - asks journalist Patrick Barkham in The Guardian, March 19 2008 (www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/19/religion).
          Knights templar, medieval knights who defended crusader states and the holy land pilgrimage. Well-equipped and trained templar knights became one of the most formidable fighting forces. The combination of a castle and a convent, used by the knights templar in the building of the castles also appeared at many more places around Southern Europe.
          This page lists www.theknightstemplar.info links to knights templar web sites - unfortunately there are no pictures on this site blogs and articles on the anniversary of the knights templar arrest in Paris. Knights templar books templar art, pictures the templar legacy, conspiracy, secret societies materials from this knights templar website may not be copied.
          The knights templar and the DaVinci code - websites feature pictures of Rosslyn Chapel and much more on the fabled crusaders and their origins of the knights templar. Still more on medieval weapons - including pictures and explanations of the shields with the design of the knights templar cross.
          They were also involved with the holy grail. Many public domain pictures of medieval knights jousting Arthur and the knights of the round table. After years the once-noble knights templar are enjoying a revival.
          More on the web - the knights templar and their knowledge from Egypt and Moses, by Ove von Spaeth. - Also, Vatican archives reveals secrets of the knights templar; the Vatican's reproducing copies of the day chaplain latest news of archive listings pictures. Notice the Temple Church in London - the church built by the knights templar, the order of crusading monks founded to protect pilgrims on their way to and from Jerusalem.

Knights templar pictures,  -  http://bokod.007webs.com/photos-t4d/knights-templar-pictures.html  -  (autumn,2008)

¤ Knights Templar, Tempelherrerne  -  2009  -  reference :
Knights Templar - Tempelherrerne - en historisk ridderorden og dens historie

Knights Templar - Tempelherrerne - en historisk ridderorden og dens historie:
En webside til inspiration for den der vil vide mere om Templets Riddere og historien om korstogene.
          Formålet med denne webside er at skildre det historiske stof om Tempelherrernes virke så objektivt som muligt.
          Dette website vil ikke beskæftige sig med det stærkt sensationsprægede stof, der i de senere år har haft en tendens til at skabe helt nye og endnu mere fantastiske myter om Tempelherrerne, idet størstedelen af dette blot er udsprunget af en for livlig fantasi og trang til at skabe sensation og tjene penge på det.

          Artikler & Nyheder - Tempelherrerne : tempelherrerne.dk/menu/opslag.htm
Opslagstavlen. Nyhedsbreve og nye artikler ...
Tempelriddernes viden fra Egypten og Moses, - af Ove von Spaeth

Tempelridderne og Moses' skjulte skat, - af Ove von Spaeth

Løvens hjerte, om engelske kong Richard I med tilnavn Couer de Lion/'Løvehjerte', - af Ove von Spaeth

          Det er af allerstørste vigtighed her at fastslå, at den historiske Tempelridderorden var grundfæstet i kristendommen, og at alle nyoprettede tempelridderordener intet har at gøre med den oprindelige Orden.  - Venlig hilsen
          Sten Schæbel Rønnov   - http://tempelherrerne.dk   - (2009).

¤ WebMii 2011   -   2011  -  reference :
Exciting research carried out by Ove von Spaeth

WebMii 2011:  WebMii is a people search mash up that centralizes public information from other websites. - All searches on WebMii generate automatically and dynamically a result page.

Assassinating Moses - Vol. 1: Debate - Moses & New Research ...
On on the historical Moses who was executed from Ancient Egypt. Exciting research carried out by Ove von Spaeth who in his book-series presents a great amount of interesting facts from the sources of anciet Rabbinical Writings ...

          WebMii 2011: For each search, WebMii shows the source of the presented information. We hope that this service will allow you to better know and control the display of information about yourself on the web.

WebMii.tw,  - http://webmii.tw/Result.aspx/Lise/Klavsen  -  Copyright © WebMii - (2011).

       
Sidetop
¤ Reader's mail - 13 December 2007  -  opinion : 
Freud and Moses - a truly wonderful reading 

An extremely eminent and very, very exciting insight is to be found in Ove von Spaeth's Freud and Moses - and the historical part of it is in complete accordance with what I know about Egypt. This year I have taught two classes and given considerable importance to ancient Egyptian history, and the opportunity of reviving some of the previously read material supplemented with a lot of new material was of benefit to me.
          Very interesting information about the word Pharaoh. In some of "my" history works I learn that "Pharaoh" means "the double house" and is thus referring to the fact that Egypt consists of a northern and a southern part - and that the pharaonic headgear is a combination of two different symbols, i.e. North and South.

          As to contents: my goodness, this is exciting reading material. Until I read this text, I did not know about Ove von Spaeth's contact with the Greek-Danish Prince Peter, the anthropologist, who - 'less easy' for our enjoyment of his presence in Denmark - was more active abroad, so this fact was very interesting. Also interesting was the reading about Ove von Spaeth's Moses-series with the volume one's previous mentioning of Freud, and the great newspaper editor-in-chief Viktor Andreasen's reaction to this, "Grumpy Viktor", as was his nick name. The remarks about Thomas Mann are important to me; up till last year I taught German and in fact this work included a lot about Thomas Mann, by whom I have been inspired in many ways.
          Constructive criticism may often be useful, but in this case it is very uncomfortable to have to react critically to such a magnificent work. So I looked into some of the used sources, and here was Josephus.

          In fact, as a tutor I have recently studied a very interesting student's treatise about Josephus' "book" 5 and 6. The student and I, as the guide, had worked quite a lot on what concerns the value of Josephus based on a perspective of criticism of the sources. And for one thing, his pro-Roman information should be accepted with a grain of salt. On the other hand he is a very important prime source in many other relations.
          When using elements from Josephus - in the way it has been done in Ove von Spaeth's text - where it cannot be claimed at all that information has been influenced by a pro-Roman attitude (as we know he moved to Rome and wrote with imperial support) - Josephus' information appears so much more clear as important and essential.

          This is a wonderful presentation. I even admit honestly that I have read it many times. It was a penetratingly good experience. I was left with an incredibly good feeling of a very exciting paper. The pleasure of the contents make me say: it was truly wonderful reading - in short: fabulous information. Great text. 

Jens Jørgensen, MA Historian, Writer, former Headmaster, - City Council of Slagelse - - jens@slagelse.... - (13.Dec.2007)

(Ed.note: The article on "Freud and Moses...", mentioned by Jens Jørgensen can be found here: www.moses-egypt.net/book-series/ovs_related-articles-c_en.asp )

¤ Alexa.com - most visited sites: Arkæologi, 16 October 2007  -  references:
The most visited sites in all 'Arkæologi' categories

Alexa.com - The Web Information Company  -  Browse Arkæologi
Top > World > Dansk > Videnskab > Humaniora > Arkæologi
_

Alexa - for: The Web Information Company -
The most visited sites in all 'Arkæologi' categories.

1.  Lejre Forsøgscenter
www.lejre-center.dk
Site info for lejre-center.dk

2.  Mysteriet om Moses revurderet
www.moses-egypt.net
Site info for moses-egypt.net

3.  Hjortspringbådens Laug
home6.inet.tele.dk/hjortspr/dk/default.htm
Site info for tele.dk

4.  Den Store Pyramide
hjem.get2net.dk/vigsoe/pyramide
Site info for get2net.dk

alexa.com, - The Web Information Company - http://www.alexa.com/browse?&CategoryID=964803  -  (Oct.2007)

       
Sidetop
¤ Ove von Spaeth's Moses-series in dokumentarical drama, March 2008, - inspiration: 
The Principal Character Inspired by Ove von Spaeth's Books

Only a few centuries ago - and as far back as all previous societies - knowledge was achieved through cultic initiation by making a promise on silence. Knowledge was reserved for the initiated.

          The key word is secret knowledge ... Doctors, philosophers, architects, scientists - all had taken an oath of silence - thus following an ancient tradition. Because this is how it was also in ancient Greece, in the Pythagorean society, and in ancient Egypt for instance. In fact this is how it has always been. Therefore - and exactly therefore - do we know so little about the actual knowledge and doing of our ancestors.

          Although often set aside, this knowledge about essential circumstances behind our civilization has nevertheless not disappeared from this world - and is thus an obvious task for a historian to disclose.
          In a new documentary detective novel by Erling Haagensen, "Murder of the Word" (Documentas Publishers, 2008), the principal character, i.e. a female historian in research of the knights templar in Jerusalem, makes an extended trip and goes to Egypt in order to investigate some original traces. This because of her inspiration by reading Ove von Spaeth's book-series about the enigmatic Moses, who among other things possessed a special knowledge from high initiations in mysteries of ancient Egypt.

http://www.merling.dk, - "Secret Knowledge", website of Erling Haagensen, writer and film director - (March,2008)

Erling Haagensen has also issued "The Treasure of the Knights Templar" and "The Round Churches of Bornholm"; – and, together with Henry Lincoln: "The Templars' Secret Island" - the magnificent story which has created the background for the Da Vincy Mystery.

Erling Haagensen is co-founder of New Science Limited - with its purpose of supporting fundamental scientific research by cutting across disciplinary boundaries - to contribute to a necessary scientific re-examination of existing paradigms, thus including aiming to enhance the common knowledge and the educational level of society, cf. http://www.new-science.co.uk

¤ e-mail opinion - 30 November 2008  -  impressions: 
Stimulating and informative - on Freud and Moses

          I read your article on Freud and Moses earlier today when I found it on your web. It is extremely well written. - Yes, it is generally accepted that especially older anthropology contributed much with the elements in the comparative religion research. Some of the latest anthropology has a tendency to dismiss the general theories, namely parts of the comparative research, and emphasizes more that everything must be understood on the local basis. Others are reflective, i.e. analyzing more how the anthropologist affects the matter which he is studying. And there are still other lines.
          Your article is very intriguing, and in which ever way you do it you are brilliant to keep the reader up to the mark. Although there will, unavoidably, be some objections to the contents, you surely have a capacity to present the subject matter so that it really fascinates. There is, so to speak, a hidden crime writer in you. Your web edition I found stimulating and informative to the effect of feeling the urge to read more.

L. Steen Larsen, Ph.D. in History of Religions, Associate Professor at the University of Lund, Sweden, - Department of History and Anthropology of Religions, http://www.lu.se/lund-university  - (29.Nov.2008)

       
Sidetop
 
 
¤ happystarlight, Ulla Runchel, - December 2005  -  reference:
Time is energy - which is constant

Time is energy - which is constant.
          Time works for all of us - we know this as a nice phrase, but in reality is it our own process of age, which develops our conduct and the patterns we develop. Then time is latent present without movement. It is the All, which moves - together with you and your thoughts in the now, constantly.
         This is the eternal life being transformed outside time in a quiet, floating stream, which is in an eternal transformation fusioned with your conscience. This conscience of yours is then used as a guide when your thoughts receives the conscience's streams of pictures and new info to the brain and yourself. This, while yours cells vibrate in measure with the pulse of the universe, and with the time as a non-moving spectator.
    Time is not movable - it is us, and the mass and materia, being expanding the mass of the materia in vacuum.

(Ulla Runchel's entire article was translated Feb.2006 by Ove von Spaeth and can be read in his e-book: The Light's Open Dimension in a New Era)

Ulla Runchel, futurist, writer, - www.123hjemmeside.dk/happystarlight/11453480

¤ ascendedmaster, April 2008  -  references:
Moses was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians

Moses.   "The Bible tells us that Moses "was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians, and was mighty in words and in deeds". In fact, he had performed great deeds of merit and passed many tests in previous lifetimes His soul was chosen for the mission because he had proven himself. Moses lived as an Egyptian of princely rank until he was about forty years old ..."

Ananda.   "In Moses' next embodiment, as Ananda during the sixth century he became the disciple of Lord Gautama Buddha. Here, at the feet of' the most advanced initiate on the planet, he learned how to render service in love and to tap the peace and understanding that come from within the golden flame of illumination. ..."

Lord Ling.   "Following that embodiment, he lived in China as Lord Ling, one of the ruling class whose high attunement with the Brotherhood enabled him to serve his people through the balanced action of the threefold flame. ..."

by Mark and Elizabeth Prophet,
from The Masters and Their Retreats p. 190-193  - Amazon.com

- - - -
When was Moses in Egypt?    "The entity then was in that land now known as Egyptian, during the period when the princess Hatshepsut (the entity's mother) was in power; and the entity's name was Sidiptu, hence a sister of that leader Moses, the law giver of Israel. ..."

by Edgar Cayce,
from the Edgar Cayce Readings (355-1)

- - - -
See also:

Moses & New Research (by Ove von Spaeth)

Historical evidence for Moses and Pharao

The Hidden Moses

John, - ascendedmaster@yahoo.com - http://www.geocities.com/ascendedmaster/Moses.html  -  (April,2008)

¤ Visdomsnettet, spring 2007  -  reference:
The historical Moses' fate and mystery

http://www.visdomsnettet.dk  - VisdomsNettet is a private humanitarian and non-profit foundation. Its purpose is information via the Internet in order to help promoting peace in the world and disseminate spritual-scientific knowledge, studies - and peace inspiration.
-

Links:  Ove von Spaeth, http://www.moses-egypt.net - the historical Moses' fate and mystery explored by Ove von Spaeth's interdisciplinary studies in egyptologi, Rabbinical Writings, Religions, Bible analysis, archaeology - and ancient astronomy and star knowledge.
          Ove von Spaeth's works on the historical Moses highlights new and exciting approaches to ancient Egyptian cultic mysteries and esoteric initiation rituals - and extends the understanding of the special spiritual character of architecture and pictorial art laws and design in ancient Egypt.

Visdomsnettet, - http://www.visdomsnettet.dk/links/  -  (spring,2007)

       
Sidetop
¤
Swedano Journal, June 2004 (3rd year, no. 6, pp. 55-57)  -  feature article:
Murdering History

By  OVE VON SPAETH


Many of the ancient events in history can be seen rejected as "untrustworthy" by some scholars. This is especially the case what concerns the Moses part of the Bible.
          However, enormous quantities of valuable information exist regarding ancient and pre-ancient times and cultures. Therefore, on the basis of the many years of accumulating finds and results from the many investigations an influential group of researchers' extreme theorizing of the past appears directly as very absurd.

 

A stele commemorating a conquered kitchen?

Research on the historical Moses and the conceptions from this are still suffering  - because of some dominating theories which for more than hundred years - especially the span of 1870-1990's are depriving Moses of all historical identity. By these influential scholarly ideas about the biblical background the researchers most often have omitted to observe the Egyptian factor although it is among the most important elements in the understanding of many claimed text discrepancies. A "knowledge filter" has been created that automatically filters everything out which is not in accordance with prevailing theories; but critics would call it 'killing history'.

          Still at the beginning of our new millennium many researchers reject the existence of King David and claiming that the Jews invented David in order to have an imperial builder like Alexander the Great (356-323 BC). However, this is a misleading, as David did not created an empire, and because a victory monument made of basalt, ca. 800 BC, was erected by the Arameans, the Syrian enemies of Israel, 150 years after David's time.
          The basalt stele is inscribed 'King of Israel' and 'House of David', bjtdwd - an expression appearing in the Bible about 25 times concerning David's dynasty ruling in Judea. Nevertheless, many researchers' pet history-model was jeopardized, so they preferred bjtdwd to mean 'boiler house' (kitchen) despite the impossibility in the fact that a victory stele should present a conquered/captured kitchen.

          Also King Midas was claimed to be a myth only. It is peculiar that Alexander the Great is indeed historically recognized, but not his acquaintance with a historical legacy regarding the wealthy King Midas and Midas' father, King Gordion, only 400 years prior to Alexander's visit to their city, Gordion, although this visit is documented. This is almost as if we refused to recognize the existence of King Louis XIV, the roi soleil of France, only 400 years prior to our time, although recognizing his Versailles.
          In 1957 archaeologist Rodney Young opened King Midas' grave mound, close to Yassihöyük in Turkey. Here was the site of ancient Gordion. Whatever any modern theory will assume next about the dating, it is a fact that the exact, scientific dating of the contents - around 750 BC - is precisely in accordance with data of the so-called myths.

          Even Buddha was called a myth. The claim concerning being a myth was counter-proved in the 1890’s when the Buddha's disappeared hometown, Kapilavastu, in notherne India was found by German archaeologist in British service, the Pali- and Sanskrit-learned Dr. Alois Anton Fuhrer. Fuhrer also in the same district found Buddha’s birthplace, Lumbini, and here King Asoka's famous pillar and its affirmative Buddhist inscriptions.
          Some of the greatest archaeological findings in other places on earth have been found in exactly the same way - via exact information in myths and legends many thousand years old.

          Great archaeologists and explorers have been able to disclose a number of claimed myths. But in addition to rigid research-political interests, also political-religious circumstances can be seen impending the solution "myths" and claiming them to be non-historical. Such problems are also known in many other historical archaeology relations. One example is that genuine Israelite-Jewish ancient findings belonging to the other side of the present Israeli borders are often designated as "Syrian culture findings". 


Conventional research on biblical Moses not unbiased

The hitherto fruitless search for traces of Moses in Egyptian history is often due to the fact that customary  knowledge and traditions about him are mainly viewed as if the Bible was the only or most important source. Narratives about Moses can also be found in the oldest of the texts which are jointly designated the "Rabbinical Writings". The latter give often more personal information about him - and were handed down as chronicles outside the Bible.

          From the first part of the 18th dynasty (around 1500 BC) - where historians find a strange and hidden transfer of power from Hatshepsut to Tuthmosis III - potential traces of Moses' Egyptian life should be recognized upon a new attitude to discovered sources. The historical material itself makes it clear that point after point of the biblical Moses narrative and its connected texts in the Rabbinical Writings prove more plausible than hitherto considered possible.
          In particular it is striking when Rabbinical and ancient writers' information is being evaluated together with finds and results from archaeology and Egyptology. In addition astronomical dating based on e.g. ancient sources of celestial records demonstrates the exact accordance with Jewish sources.

          It would have a great realistic value to point to a possible identity of the Moses figure. For many and different reasons research of history, Egyptology, and theology have not always been unbiased in the many attempts through times to trace Moses as a real person in history. To point to a historically authentic Egyptian person as being Moses is not at all unprecedented; well-known Egyptologists have tried - suggestions with gaps in historical coherence and the use of non-consisting Moses dating, however, the attempts compel respect.

          The breach with traditional way of perception by biblical related research was so successful that some researchers at an early stage took myths seriously and made them subject to close analyses. Anthropologists and others - e.g. also Freud and some of his followers - were among the first to scientifically enlarge the view on special circumstances of the contents of the oldest biblical texts. Whereas other researchers maintaining the theory about the Bible as myths only, have not yet solved the simple question: if the majority of the Bible about Moses is an artificial invention only and without a certain probability, then the Mosaic religion remains a huge mystery.
 

Egyptian Source Documentation on Moses

Many researchers adopted the attitude that Abraham and Moses are pure fiction, the exodus never happened - and most of the Bible consists of fictional, national-ideological narratives set in a "patchwork" of religious backgrounds; everything invented by the priests ca. 300 BC.
          Although also many general inscriptions in stone exist, a physical source problem is the perishableness of old papyrus writing material - only few manuscripts or parts of texts on papyrus prior to ca. 1300 BC are preserved.

          Although the Bible has 3-4 Hebrew words for 'linen/cotton' (e.g. bad, peshet, and sadin) the Egyptian word shesh (shesn) is being used 38 times, of which 34 passages with this word are in the Pentateuch but is nevertheless claimed to belong to a so-called late "P-source" (i.e. alleged having been written by Hebrew priests 1000 years later than the Israelite exodus). But why should the clergy (P-source) leave out the words of their own Hebrew biblical language and be Egyptologic linguistic historians?
          It is a historical fact that early traces of "monotheism" (in fact monolatri), i.e. the idea of one chosen (creating) god superior to other gods, was known in Egypt - for instance in 1500-1400 BC, i.e. the time of Moses, but also known much earlier. According to ancient writers he would present his own ideas about reforming the Egyptian religion, so that the traditional clergy obviously had good reasons for a protection against him.

          However, 2,300 years ago King Ptolemy II ordered all ancient books and documents from the libraries of the temples all over Egypt to be collected in his new great library of Alexandria - and here at that time, the historian and priest, Manetho, drew information from these sources and wrote in Greek about Moses' riot and the exodus.
          Thus, it is a fact that at 280 BC original Egyptian documentation on Moses was still existing - so how can so many of present-day's scholars and researchers claim that Moses never existed but is an invention created in Israel or even Babylonia by Jewish priests at the same time ca. 300 BC?

          The Ptolemaic kings allowed Jews to settle down in Egypt - and through ca. 300 years in the city of Leontopolis they had their own temple of the Jerusalem model and a high priest. And in Alexandria they lived in a fourth part, the Delta quarter, of the great city - altogether a huge group of new Jewish inhabitants (and in addition many Samaritan emigrants) to be behind King Ptolemy II's sponsoring a translation of the Hebrew Bible into the Greek international language - the Septuaginta Bible.
          Again, it was around 280 BC that this task was carried out in Alexandria. In the great library Manetho by chance may even have worked almost side by side with the 72 translating Jewish rabbis and scholars.
          So, how can anybody claim that the Bible is a late creation - and how could the concrete existing Septuaginta Bible then have been translated from a Hebrew Bible which in the claimed case barely existed yet?


Archaeological Documentation

Many academic schools of these directions of research claim persistently that Moses with the exodus from Egypt is a myth - a claim in open conflict with many ancient documents. It is a fact that the pharaoh now known as Tuthmosis II is mentioned in ancient Jewish writings as "the stepfather of Moses" and "the husband of Pharaoh's daughter". Also Artapanos, the Egyptian-Jewish writer in Alexandria, ca. 150 BC, maintained this - as quoted by ancient Church historian Eusebius who specifically states ("Evangelica Praeparatio, IX", 27, 433b-434b) that this particular pharaoh (Tuthmosis II) was the oldest known case of a person suffering from elephantiasis.
          The mummy of Pharaoh Tuthmosis II was found as late as in 1881, and his skin still showed signs of an advanced stage of affliction resembling elephantiasis swellings - the most violent case ever seen on any royal mummy. This means that these specific data about Moses cannot have been invented, as they refer exactly to a certain pharaoh and his time (ca. 1500 BC). In addition, it determines a more correct time of Moses' historical existence.

          The Jewish-Roman historian Josephus, 2,000 years ago, had invaluable sources on the history of the Jews, also because of Titus Caesar (Vespasian), the conqueror of Jerusalem, gave Josephus scrolls that were taken from The Jerusalem Temple on its destruction in 70 AD. Josephus had no problem with acknowledging the authenticity of Manetho's texts but disagreed much with Manetho's Egyptian view on Moses as a destructive rebellion - to Josephus he was a hero.
          Among an Egyptian king's many daughters only bears the title "Pharaoh's Daughter" - the crown princess. In the Bible, Moses is mentioned in terms as 'the Son of Pharaoh's Daughter'. This, his in fact royal Egyptian title, is corresponding with that Manetho both calling him Moses and Osarsyph  - i.e. User-sif  in late-Egyptian language meaning 'child of Osiris', i.e. Horus, who was always identified with the crown prince of Egypt.

          Some archaeological findings in Israel of small bronze figures made out as Golden Calves are both independently dated to 1400-1300 BC. This result has not been doubted by any professional. The concrete findings confirm the plausibility of the biblical narrative about the Golden Calf and the time-originality of the text, especially as these findings have been made at the cities of Ashqelon and northern Dan, respectively.
          It is worth noting that it was exactly these two sites which in turns were inhabited by the Dan tribe, who - according to the Bible ("The Book of Judges") - continued to have a Golden Calf cult, now headed by a priest, a descendant of Moses! Many scholars claim that the biblical texts were written very late, 400-300 BC, but it is simply unlikely that anybody would "invent" a text with a prestige as bad as the "Golden Calf cult".

          The excavation of Jericho shows that the construction of the city wall with houses on top of the wall is in accordance with the biblical ("The Book of Joshua") description - for instance of the house of Rahab. When the Bible mentions Joshua's order for removing all metal from the city, before he burned it down, the traces of a well organized burning down the city are all recognized together with fact that precisely this city (specific layer) only - among a number of other Jerichos built on top of each other - was completely robbed of all kinds of metal.
          However, the dating of the conquest of Jericho to be during the years of 1100 BC are still recognized by many, although long ago it has been proved wrong by new and better archaeology, for instance the thorough ceramic and chemical dating and in addition the dating of the collapse of the city walls to be ca. 1400 BC. A most important fact: this is in exact accordance with the age of the contemporary Tell el-Amarna letters about the Hebrew invasion in this ancient country.


The theory-convinced researchers

Based on exact and simply undisputable, archaeological evidence material, many theory-convinced historians and theologians have had to give up - finally - their claims about non-historical myths concerning Ur, the Hittites, and even King Midas, Buddha, and many more. People of ancient time knew the difference between myths and actual occurrences, so instead of undocumented assertions about myths as stated by the researchers, they themselves ought to start proving whether historical data are myths.
          It is an inevitable fact that none of the learned men in antiquity, not even those who were opponents to the Bible or the Jews, has denied the existence of Moses. The denial proclaimed among today's researchers would have been considered arrogant.

          For almost 1,800 years unconditional belief in the Bible was mandatory. Today, many academic theologians do not recommend belief in the ancient parts of Bible, and when being confronted with new, exact facts about real history these people may even refuse them with an almost religious fanaticism and sometimes some aggression. However, when initiating any investigation of ancient history it is rather irresponsible in advance to reject events of the past as "imaginations". Why should people of ancient times be considered more stupid than people of today and be equipped with a belief in old tall stories about their knowledge of history?

Ove von Spaeth, writer, researcher - copyright © 2004  -  www.moses-egypt.net

The text includes extracts from Ove von Spaeth's books "The Secret Religion" and "Prophet and Unknown Genius" - www.moses-egypt.net/book-series/moses_survey_en.asp - C.A. Reitzel Bookseller, Publisher www.lemuelbooks.com

       
Sidetop
¤ Correspondance, 20 Februar 2009  -  info and comment:  
When Homer, Moses and other authorships are being split up to appear in greater numbers

By  OVE VON SPAETH.

- With respect to Jens Jorgensen's letter, above.
          Concerning the ancient knowledge from Egypt and to use of codes to keep the information safe - a method which even seem to be known by Homer - such is also connected in Ove von Spaeth's articles on the Knights Templar and about Homer on this page http://www.moses-egypt.net/zenith-files_en/e-books_group2_en.asp . Regarding some academic views of the ancient authorships the following commented info should be added:

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A problem appears to occur when from their present time related positions many researchers of ancient texts obviously having difficulties in perceiving circumstances concerning some of famous authorships of antiquity. Instead of respecting the factual distance of several thousands of years  concerning knowledge and insight, and admit that these qualities have only partly been achieved, some important ancient writers are now being claimed to be myths and the texts being written and pieced together by many other writers - and always at a time much later than indicated in the texts.
          Also it is claimed that events mentioned in the texts have never taken place - and likewise they are also myths. As an example, the recounts presented in the Moses texts from about 1400 BC are claimed to have been written in around 300 BC.
          Moreover, the detailed information of Homer's texts about the Trojan wars in 1200-1100 BC is said to have been "invented" in 700 BC by Homer; but because many researchers consider him a non-existing author, the text pieces are now being claimed written as myth adventures by different writers of this later time.

          Based on their contents of narratives, rules, and poems, numerous attempts have been made to demonstrate that the Books of Moses, the Pentateuch, have been written by many different writers - as if writers can only write in one style although it is elementary that a writer, who writes poems, can also write prose; likewise that a lawyer can formulate texts for legal documents and change his style when, for instance, private circumstances are being described.
          History presents many writers who have written in distinctively different styles in their epos, poems, and political texts, respectively. Generally, world history can hardly present a major literary document which can be characterized as having an unfailing, consistently pure style. Nevertheless, study of sources is guided by armchair theories with a Utopian, stylistic ideal of uniformity.
          That the Moses texts should be a conglomerate from many writers will, however - on this complex background - still reflect the same lunacy as "placing a thousand monkeys in front of typewriters in order to reproduce Shakespeare" through millions of years.

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Hereby Ove von Spaeth's supplementary text from his book "The Secret Religion" (pp. 322-323)

When authorships are being split up to appear in greater numbers

The somewhat individualistic style of "the 5th Book of Pentateuch" (claimed in the widespread theory to belong to the so-called "D-source") may naturally be due to the focus of this text: namely, that the story deals with the last months of the exodus and explains the pact of the Law, thus summing up the recent history and presenting to the people many circumstances necessary especially to the new generation of Israelites, who on the Plains of Moab had been misled by the influence of foreigners/enemies.
          This was also a pep talk to the entire people who were eventually was facing the commencement of the invasion of  Canaanite land. Some possibly newer adjustments in the writings cannot be used to contest the age of oldest, original core of the texts.

          Julius Wellhausen (1844-1918), the German biblical academician, famous for his research of the history of the Old Testament and for his analysis of the structure and dating of biblical texts, maintained strongly that the Books of the Pentateuch had been compiled of four sources (the "documentary" theory) which were often myth material revised or even written by many authors. 
          As a downright fashion wave the Wellhausen ideas quickly spread also to other areas, i.e. non-biblical disciplines of text research. This can for instance be seen in some of the later analyses of Nordic sagas.
          The Wellhausen effect also contributed to the allegation that the heterogeneous style of Shakespeare's writing was the result of the efforts of as many as 50 writers. But then - how can the numerous genres of for instance "Don Quichotte" by Cervantes be explained?

          A typical "literary syndrome" emerging in connection with Homer can illustrate the problem: the Wellhausen hypothesis was also especially used by Wilamowitz, the Prussian researcher of ancient Greek. He claimed that chapters - or poems - of Homer's "Odyssey" had been written by many different writers, each of their time, e.g. "the (alleged) writer of the 9th song", "the (alleged) writer of the 10th song", etc. Wilamowitz and his followers believed to be able to prove that the last part of the 23rd song of the "Odyssey" (of in total 24 songs) had been written later, because it is distinctively different from the other songs.
          Later in the 20th century many researchers maintained that the two works of Homer were written by at least a different writer of each one. It had been noticed that the writer of the "Odyssey" was very well acquainted with the "Iliad" (without quoting it, however), while the opposite does not seem to be the case with the "Iliad".
          If Homer in that case is limited to two authors and not a greater number of writers, the next question is about the ca. 30 years which seem to make the difference between the "Iliad" and the "Odyssey" - that it may by most natural reasons be due to the younger and the older version of the same writer personality.
          Thus an entire parallel to the academic-theoretic problematizing of Moses' authorship of the Pentateuch is demonstrated, to which it is frequently mentioned that especially the latest part of the Deuternomy in the Pentateuch shows a slightly different style.

          The study of ancient Greek language and culture was the leading, most esteemed, and most authoritative discipline, and many researchers follow suit. Banal errors in old copies of the ancient texts were made guidelines for alleged styles and writers. Still, for instance French or Serbian mediaeval epics, which cannot be suspected of forgery or hidden inclusions of other sources, are quite as much containing so-called "errors" as the "Iliad" and the "Odyssey".
          The known, reasonably solid facts are that the oldest core of the works (possibly rendered verbally) about the Trojan ages of 1200-1100 BC, is considered to origin from times prior to one of the oldest findings at all containing Greek alphabetical writing. Namely, a text on a vase found on the Italian island of Lipardi and with an archaeologically well recognized dating from the years of 800 BC - and where the inscription presents a quotation from the "Iliad".

The letters from Troy ignored
Some unfortunate ones among of the Wilamowitz ideas about the ancient Greek works are still being used, although definitely belied long ago by for instance a number of American researchers and especially by the letters from Hittite archives (now in Berlin), thus the letters from King Hatusa, the Trojan ally - they are from the very time of the plot of the "Iliad" by Homer.
          This is bound to revolutionize the perception of Homer, as the letters present a wealth of well-known Trojan names of persons and places, i.e. Ilia, Uil(u)ia; for example this city-state's Prince Paris who is mentioned both in the archives and by Homer, however, frequently by his also well-known extra name, Alexandros Ilion.
          Also, for instance, a helmet mention by Homer that is was made of tusks of a wild boar - so quite unusual that researchers considered it as poetical fantasies. However, exactly such a helmet dating to the years of 1100 BC has actually been found at the so-called Agamemnon royal tomb, i.e. the precise time and site of the point of departure of the actions in the "Iliad".

          John Kraft, Professor of the University of Delaware, who has 20 years of experience of Greek topography and geology, has proved that the landscapes of Homer's the "Iliad" in the tiniest detail corresponds to the Trojan topography 3,000 years ago. This also fits for example the elevated sea floor of today, from where according to history it was possible from the city of Troy to look down immediately at ships situated on the beach.
          A number of experts including linguists and historians support what geologic excavations show that the "Iliad" is not "a simple legend": "... We can prove that the landscapes exist ...", ("Geology", Journal of the Geological Society of America, March 2003).
          Scholars shouldn't ignore Greek historian Strabo in his 'Geography' (1.1.10) stating: "… I and my predecessors are right in regarding Homer as the founder of science of geography ...".
It is also ignored that only 150 years after Homer, Greek philosopher Heraclitus mentions that Homer's use of a mythic form was for a clothing of the texts in order to create allegories.
          Likewise, when the researchers Ventris & Chadwick - who solved the mystery of the linear-B writing as being the Mycenaean language - found out in the texts from Crete from 1500-1400 BC that the Homeric names like Achilles and Hector can also be seen here. According to this fact, Homer was a user of concrete historic material rather than inventing fictions.
          And in spite of that the Hittite archives are using double names for one and the same person: Prince Ilion and Prince Paris, this fact also is often ignored. However, kings and princes were often named after their location and Troy's other name is Ilion - hence Homer's work is called: Iliad.
          Many researchers dismiss also Troy and the Trojan war, but see this: A pre-Homeric poem from ca. 700 BC by Archilochus - discovered in 1998 by Dr. W.B. Henry, Oxford University - in an Oxyrhynchus Papyri (no. 4708 found in the Middle Egypt, 1897), describes that Greek warriors prior to the Trojan war mistaking a city near Troy for the "city of Troy with its high gates" and was defeated, many were killed, others captured as slaves. Homer describes a subsequent ancient Greek expedition to Troy now as revenge (could the 'abducted Helena' perhaps be a significant expression of the captured Hellenians, i.e. 'Greeks'?).

          Nevertheless, many researchers focus on, for instance, a systematic counting of names of sites and heroes and use the result as a "proof" making the Homeric narrative about this prince to be a compilation of several sources (five sources have been suggested).
          Then Homer is often considered as being non-existing, a myth figure - i.e. parallel to some theologians' perception of Moses - instead of focusing on Homer, who for his inspiring descriptions has collected real historic backgrounds in the ancient, concrete material then existing in different dialects.
          Although the Homeric poems thus are alternating between Greek dialects - not unusual in itself and is no proof that the work has had many writers - the basis is Ionic. An alleged change of style in the last song of the "Odyssey" is only due to the fact that the majority is a résumé - exactly as is the case with the Deuteronomy in the Bible.
          For also the Deuteronomy is known for a special style which, likewise the case of the Homer, is natural because of its account of the Moses' orations in direct form (except for a scribe's final addition about the death of Moses). Correspondingly, it is obvious that following a sequence of 40 years, his new, written language must have improved and developed in this, the last book. - Cf. the well-known example that Sigmund Freud changed to another (new) style in his last work - which, by the way, was about Moses!

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Supplementary text from Ove von Spaeth's book, "Prophet and Unknown Genius" (pp. 207-209).

Ignored historic circumstances of the "Iliad"

Another example:  at an early stage researchers used the biblical mentioning of an entirely unknown people, i.e. the Hittites, as a proof that the existence of this people was an invented myth. However, German archaeological excavations at Boghazköy in Turkey in 1906 uncovered the Hittite capital (Hattusa) and their culture, which showed that the biblical mention in reality was based on a true rendering.
          Hittite archives found during the excavation were brought to Berlin (here, the Bogázköy Archives now being placed in the Vorderasiatisches Museum). From the texts appear that the Hittites among their Trojan (!) neighbours were well acquainted with Prince Paris - even under his other name too, Prince Ilion - from Troy (Ilion). The Trojan names of the prince are clearly stated. The text is from the time pointed out by all classic sources and Homer's "Iliad", i.e. 1100 BC according to present chronology.
          But even after having been acquainted with the mentioned archives for more than a century - and instead of a matter-of-fact and unbiased conclusion that among Homer's literary traditions or in the very myth is a clear existence of a number of essential historic facts - many researchers nevertheless continue from their armchair to state that the historic features of the "Iliad", Prince Paris, and Troy are fiction and pure myth!

          The very ancient town of Troy was perceived as a myth until 1870, when, based on the exact topographic information of the "Iliad", Schliemann found the town at Hisarlik, now covered by a hill. Then - in 1876 - he found the mythic Mycenaean royal treasure. Both these findings were based on his systematic pioneer archaeology - for instance with his improved inventions of a note system and examination trenches - both methods became model for all later archaeologists.
          But Schliemann‘s discoveries did not make him popular in academic circles. His impressive achievements including the very finding of the site of the town, to which work he had extensive calculations methodically carried out on the site and not "at the desk" contrary to what was not unusual at that time - were put down by his critics; some said that "he had not found Troy, but only some towns in layers above a presumed possible Troy". The view that the gold treasure he found might be of a later date than Homer’s Troy cannot impair his effort.

          Nevertheless, today it is known for sure (also topographically, cf. "Geology" vol. 31, 2003, pp. 163-166) that Troy was situated at this exact site. Namely, layer number 6 or 7, possibly 7b-1 out of the ca. 10 main layers with built-up areas, including in total approx. 50 sub-divisions. (Cf. mentioning in the "The Secret Religion", p. 323).
          German archaeologist professor at Tübingen Universität, and leader of the Troy excavations, Manfred Korfmann, has since 1988 found so many sensational items here, and he says, “... At least we archaeologists have found a 'set piece' of the Troy/Ilios described by Homer in the 700's BC, although already in his time it was ruins ...". Joachim Latacz, Homeric expert and professor at the Universität Basel (Switzerland), seconds him in 2001 in his book, "Troia und Homer" by claiming and motivating that "... the assumed war about Troy is plausible ...".
          Geophysicist and archaeologist Helmut Becker confirmed by geomagnetic measurements, in 1994, the large area of the extensive lower town (now partly excavated) for several thousand people around the 'Acropolis fortress' which Schliemann originally discovered as a basis for the find of the big historic city of Troy.

The Trojan horse
In the spring of 2004 film director Wolfgang Petersen had a world-wide first-night-opening of his spectacular Troy film - a project of milliards including huge sums on making so many of the historic surroundings look as authentic as possible in relation to the fixed conditions of the project. The way in which the Troy film was received actually reveals with today's problems with basic knowledge of culture history.
          By reading the film reviews, both local and international (CNN and BBC), it became clear that they almost never pointed out that a leading part of the film, the huge horse known as "the Trojan Horse", is not mentioned in the "Iliad". Although just mentioned in the "Odyssey", it is only being really dealt with about 700 years later by Vergil.
          For more than 2,000 years this peculiarity has been debated - a debate which should be well-known by everybody claiming knowledge about Homer. The director of the film should be praised for his logic and excellent idea of moving forward the giant horse to the "Iliad", where it can actually be said to have an obvious placement, thus extending the plot of the "Iliad" to a conclusion by the fall of Troy.

          This circumstance has been ignored by reviewers as well as literates in their reviews of the film, although they do not hesitate to comment critically on many features of the literary and historic aspects of the film - a criticism founded on the idea of how they desire "their" genuine "Iliad" - although not too well-known by most of them apparently - i.e. how they believed it to be.
          Also, many literary experts and critics have maintained that the very Trojan horse is a myth, since hiding warriors in a hollow horse would not be taken seriously (if Troy existed at all). However, in today's Turkish areas archaeologists have found huge ceremony bronze cast animals, for instance oxen - hollow as giant vats so huge that they were able even to hold several people. Still, it must have been known in the time of Vergil.

          A similar contradiction can be observed with some theological schools and branches of Egyptology, where new and improved data of the research on Moses are being ignored or rejected because it is preferred that a hitherto picture is not to be changed or disturbed.
          And the conclusive point: obviously, good knowledge of history and history-literary matters is sometimes in short supply - not only in general but also among many experts.
          Culture of the western world has changed with express speed during the latest decades of the 20th century, so it is only natural if much of ancient knowledge now is considered less relevant. But is it realistic and useful to do this to such an extent? But this is further encouraged by the fact that many theorists with their obviously limited insight and their attitudes to the past, are judging in a way almost as if they wanted to abolish history.

Ove von Spaeth, - of my books, "The Secret Religion", 2004, (pp. 322-323)  -  and  "Prophet and Unknown Genius", 2005, (pp. 207-209) - (on the Internet 20.feb.2009)



 
 
2  DISCUSSIONGROUPS & NEWSGROUPS  -  ON THE MOSES-SERIES
- evt. praktisk at kunne læse teksten off-line
¤ Discussiongroups, Ancient History of the Bible World, 17 Feb 2008 - recommending:
Very interesting Danish independent scholar

Subject:  Von Spaeth and the Birth of Moses.  - Yahoo! ID: marianneluban
Ancient History Discussion of the Bible World. - The largest English-speaking list in the world that allows un-moderated discussion of Old and New Testament historical issues:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AncientBibleHistory

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Hi all, Maybe those of you who know me think I've fallen off the globe, but I'm still around - have just been very busy writing books. I've just put out "The Pharaoh's Barber", a murder mystery set in the court of Thutmose III and, by the end of the month, "The Priest" [as in Catholic, not ancient Egyptian] will be available. That's a lot of time on a word-processor!

          Anyway, I hope to be able to engage in discourse with y'all again here. Many of you have never heard of Ove von Spaeth, but he's a very interesting Danish independent scholar [my favorite kind of people, when they're well-informed and reasonable] who loves astronomy.
          I thought I knew a lot about rabbincal literature, Midrashim, but here's something I missed and left out in my own book - Rabbi Abrabanel's info on the state of the heavens around the time of the birth of Moses.
          But Von Spaeth, the same guy who attributed the year 1534 BCE to the heavenly configuration on the astronomical ceiling of Senenmut, picked up on it.
          Read here:  http://www.moses-egypt.net/book1/moses1-cap1_en.asp

marianneluban, #57935, <Mluban@...> - AncientBibleHistory - Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:15 pm - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AncientBibleHistory/message/57935  -  (17.Feb.2008)

Marianne Luban is the author of "The Pharaoh's Barber", Pacific Moon Publications, 2008  - http://www.amazon.com/Pharaohs-Barber-Marianne-Luban/dp/0972952411
- also, Marianne Luban: "The Exodus Chronicles: Beliefs, Legends & Rumors from Antiquity Regarding the Exodus of the Jews from Egypt", Pacific Moon Publications, 2003  - http://www.amazon.com/Exodus-Chronicles-Beliefs-Antiquity-Regarding/dp/0972952403

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It's good to see you back, Marianne: you've been sorely missed.
- aj,

andrej1234au, - #57956 <andrej1234au@...> - AncientBibleHistory - Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:30 am -  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AncientBibleHistory/message/57956 -  (19.Feb.2008)

       
Sidetop
¤ Discussiongroups, Wales Pontypridd & Valleys Forum, 7 December 2007  -  opinions:
There is no such thing as "The" Bible

Wales, Pontypridd & Valleys Forum - (present item:) The Bible (Read 2214 times)
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There is no such thing as "The" Bible. There are many versions of this book, and many parts missing. edited, lost or adjusted in translation. I think it people who claim to be 'Christians' start telling others what this book says, they should take care to specify what version/date/language version, they refer to. Some say it was written by God, well if that's the case, then God is obviously Welsh.

ValleyBoy, Senior Member, (Cefnogwch Cymru), Posts: 3371, - Reply #15 - Re: The Bible - Dec 7th, 2007, 3:29pm -  http://pontytown.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1196513949;start=all  -  (7.Dec.2007)

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There are many translations but most Christians are aware of those which stick most closely to the original. I haven't yet heard anyone say it was written by God. I've heard all Christians say that it was inspired by Him.

Beth, Junior Member, (And God said... Charles who?), Posts: 225, - Reply #16 - Re: The Bible - Dec 7th, 2007, 5:08pm -  http://pontytown.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1196513949;start=all  -  (7.Dec.2007)

95% of the Universe is a mystery to scientists... you just have to put your faith in the fact that Dark Matter is there, even though they don't know what it is and cannot see it....

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Check these out:

http://reluctant-messenger.com/lost_forgotten_books.htm

http://www.moses-egypt.net/book1/moses1-reviews_en.asp

http://ia300027.us.archive.org/2/items/biblemythsandthe00doanuoft/biblemythsandt he00doanuoft.pdf

George, Full Member, (Darwin Enabler), Posts: 1328, - Reply #17 - Re: The Bible - Dec 7th, 2007, 5:31pm  -  http://pontytown.co.uk/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1196513949;start=all  -  (7.Dec.2007)

"Gwell Angu Na Chywilyd" Better Death Than Dishonour

¤ TheologyWeb Campus - 24 November 2009  -  suggestion: 
Better, try this site: www.moses-egypt.net

TheologyWeb Campus > World Religions Dept. > Judaism > Torah: A Commentary of Love (a response to Christians)
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PDA, - View Full Version : [Archive] Torah: A Commentary of Love (a response to Christians) Judaism ... "Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy ...  November 24th 2008, 11:25 PM
          I tried to read this entire thread but after the first 2 pages of 4 I found myself somewhat distracted. I did see a lot of discussion about Moses and Jesus and thought I would beg everyone's indulgence to ask about a site I recently found:  http://www.moses-egypt.net/default.asp

Dan, - TheologyWeb Campus > World Religions Dept. -  November 24th 2008, 11:25 PM, http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/archive/index.php/t-58500.html
 -  (24.Nov.2008)

¤ Discussiongroup: EBblog.dk, 12 November 2007  -  debate:
Did Ancient Jews Know the Swastika as a Non-Negative Symbol?

EBblog - owned by (name:) Kai Mikkelsen - www.ebblog.dk/3561/perma/3210#
This blog is not being edited in advance by the Ekstra Bladet New Media. The owner of the blog is responsible for all contents.

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That something arouses dislike does not necessarily make it offensive and subject to censorship - to google Swastika and get wiser!  Key word: wikipeda
Trackback-URL: http://www.ebblog.dk//track.php?art=32106

Buddhist temples in the Far East use the Swastika as a pictogram.
          Written by Kai Mikkelsen on 12 November, 2007, at 12:23

# 1 Comment from an Anonymous (reply):
Isn't it turned around? Isn't it a sun sign? (which Hitler stole and misused). Isn't that well-known to everybody?
          Improper? Tip moderator! Written on 12 November, 2007, at 12:45
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Answer from Kai Mikkelsen:
It is not my impression. I had a comment deleted because a little girl was frightened by an old, manipulated picture of the Europe Flag with an inserted Turkish flag and a Swastika. I was warning against Fascist powers in case of a wrong voting. This young person is too young to relate to the occupation, but may have been told that it was something ugly - with the result that she reported the comment and in this way the freedom of speech and expression was again violated.
          Improper? Tip moderator! Written on 12 November, 2007, at 12:57
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#4 Comment from BM (reply):
The nationality mark of the Finnish Air Force during 1918–44. It did not origin from the Nazis, but from Swedish Count von Rosen, who helped out the Finns in their fight for independence.
          Improper? Tip moderator! Written on 12 November, 2007, at 12:52
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#7 Comment from BM (reply):
The truth about... Swastika og Hakenkreutz:
Hopies and Swastika. In his article on "Nostradamus and the New Millennium", Ove von Spaeth writes:  "... Hopi Prophecies. The Hopies, one of North America's oldest Indian communities, have protected their very ancient rock inscriptions. These are showing omens concerning, for instance, the world "after the great war", where "evil powers abused the sign of the sun". This means Nazi-Germany's swastika - where this sun-glyph was turned opposite in contrast to the old traditions (of the Hindus using it in more than 5,000 years; also the ancient Jews, and the Vikings seem to know this sign quite early) - and Japan's national (war) flag, likewise, showed an ancient sun-sign ...
          ... According to the Hopies, Hopi omens state that in the period after World War II humanity will have a last greater chance to bring nature and the world into a better balance and to become conscious about this instead of functioning stupid-mechanical. Failing this, we shall, in the new age, soon follow the wrong track inevitably, without being able to stop, 'leading towards the abyss'. The omen is understood to include possibilities for alternative results, especially if present generations will listen and change the course. ..."
          Link to Ove von Spaeth's article NOSTRADAMUS - AND THE NEW MILLENNIUM.

Additional:  Feature in the Jyllands-Posten's Net edition, published on 21 January, 2007, (and mailed by Ove von Spaeth to the VisdomsNettet):  Hindus and the Swastika. For THOUSANDS OF YEARS the Swastika has been the holy Hindu symbol, i.e. the cross that Hitler stole and made the Nazi stamp of their atrocities.
          The Swastika has already been forbidden in Germany. Now, while heading the EU Presidency, Germany is, among many activities, planning to pass a law forbidding the use of the sign in all EU member states. Obviously, Hindus living in Europe are protesting, because in the 5,000 years when the Swastika was their religious symbol, it meant the opposite of what Hitler did to it.
          In the Hinduism the Swastika is a symbol of the goodness and of peace. Contrary to that, the Hitler Swastika means disaster, which the Nazis demonstrated in full by reversing the sign and making it the grotesque and gruesome symbol of their violent regime and the Holocaust.
          The Jewish dislike of the Hitler Swastika is easily understood and accepted. Equally understandable is the uneasiness of Germany and other European countries, when Neo-Nazi groups use the symbols belonging to the Hitler era. But the Neo-Nazi problem cannot be solved with a law making it impossible for Hindus to continue to use the original version of the cross.
          Of course the peaceful version of the cross should not be prohibited, only because Hitler created a reversed travesty, or naively believing that in this way Neo-Nazism can be stopped. On the contrary it must be realized that the essence of the Swastika problem is sheer ignorance of the original significance of the symbol. Consequently, the EU objective should be to inform about the difference of the two symbols by education and information.
          The fact that Hitler stole the holy Hindu symbol and used it as his stamp for terror, racism, and religious discrimination is no acceptable reason for forbidding the original symbol. That is only dealing superficially with a much more serious problem: the Neo-Nazism.
          Improper? Tip moderator! Written on 12 November, 2007, at 14:24
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Answer from Kai Mikkelsen:
Thank you for the updating. Perhaps that may diversify the ideas of symbols – although I doubt it.
          Improper? Tip moderator! Written on 12 November, 2007, at 17:05
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Kai Mikkelsen, - http://www.ebblog.dk/3561/perma/32106 - (12.Nov.2007)

       
Sidetop
¤ TheologyWeb Campus, 3 December 2008  -  discussions: 
Comments on Moses was born in 1534 BC

www.theologyweb.com founded January 2003. TheologyWeb Campus - powered by America's Independence. This is the forum where world history, in general, can be discussed. Since the WH201, like the other fora in the World History department, is not limited to participation along lines of theology, all may post here.  - Welcome to "World History 201"- http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/forumdisplay.php?f=144
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TheologyWeb Campus » History Dept. » World History 201 » Moses was born in 1534 B.C. - your comments?  
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Eeset
Webber - (Female - Posts: 316 - Join Date: October 6th, 2008)
Post: #1 Moses was born in 1534 B.C. - your comments?
December 2nd 2008 , 09:14 PM
          I would like to know what others think of the works of the Danish scholar Ove von Spaeth. Some of his works are translated into English. He has used a combination of ancient sources to pinpoint the year and month of Moses's birth. Here is a link to chapter one of book one of his 5 volume work. You can trace to other available texts from this. I have found very little elsewhere on the net about Mr. von Spaeth:  http://www.moses-egypt.net/book1/moses1-cap1_en.asp
Eeset,
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FreezBee Howdy in da igloo - (Male - Posts: 9,706 - Join Date: February 8th, 2006)
Post: #2 Re: Moses was born in 1534 B.C. - your comments?
December 3rd 2008 , 07:30 AM  - In reply to Eeset
          I read some chapters of volume 1 a few years ago, but didn't really find it particularly convincing and gave up reading. - It is interesting that there is so little about von Spaeth in English, although I am not sure how to interpret that.
- FreezBee
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Eeset tWebber - (Female - Posts: 316 - Join Date: October 6th, 2008)
Post: #3 Re: Moses was born in 1534 B.C. - your comments?
December 3rd 2008 , 11:34 AM  -  In reply to this post by FreezBee
          Yes. That is what bothered me a bit and when I read his resume, it says a lot but offers no credential as an American or British resume would. I did find the latest information on the Egyptian star chart and the dating of a celestial event at 1537 B.C. to be interesting. And evidently the Israeli antiquities group is interested in his works. Archeology fascinates me and I wish I could find more on the web that either corroborated what he is saying or discounted it for solid reasons. If anyone has such links I would appreciate them.
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FreezBee Howdy, in da igloo - (Male - Posts: 9,706 - Join Date: February 8th, 2006)
December 3rd 2008 , 04:36 PM  -  In reply to this post by Eeset
Post: #4 Re: Moses was born in 1534 B.C. - your comments?
          I only know of some Danish links, but I suppose you can't read Danish, so no use to post those. - Sorry
          ETA: if you are interested, you can send a mail to info@moses-egypt.net
- FreezBee
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Eeset
tWebber - (Female - Posts: 316 - Join Date: October 6th, 2008)
Post: #5 Re: Moses was born in 1534 B.C. - your comments?
December 3rd 2008 , 05:07 PM  -  In reply to this post by FreezBee
          Thanks. I do have a friend who is Danish. Do the links you have talk about the author or are they links to his books and other stuff?
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FreezBee
Howdy in da igloo - (Male - Posts: 9,706  - Join Date: February 8th, 2006)
Post: #6 Re: Moses was born in 1534 B.C. - your comments?
December 3rd 2008 , 06:36 PM  -  In reply to this post by Eeset
         
Ok, there is an article about the 5 books here      
          http://www.flix.dk/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=3064

A review of the books here
          http://www.humanisme.dk/boeger/bog008.php   

Ove von Spaeth has a blog here      
          http://www.fyldepennen.dk/tekster/33531

An article by Ove von Spaeth here           
         www.visdomsforlaget.no/download/ReligionensTabteDimension_2del.pdf

Great amounts of New Age articles about the books, e.g. here         
          http://www.siqintelligens.dk/index.php?pid=170
- FreezBee

TheologyWeb, (87.55.33.---) - Date: 13-Nov-08 23:48 -http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/forumdisplay.php?f=144  -  (3.Dec.2008)


- - - - -
NOTE (pres. webmaster, moses-egypt.net) : a practical reference for above mail post #3, 3.Dec.2008,11:34am by 'Eeset tWebber' searching the author's credentials, a whole page authordata-4: Reflecting Views presents contrubutions from more than 35 experts and professionals, mostly academics and scholars at universities and research institutions.

¤ India Discussion Forum  -  November- December 2008  -  opinions on religions: 
Try this sample: Freud on Moses

India Discussion Forum, India-Forum.com - news and analysis - Item: Historicity of Jesus - 2
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Shambhu  Nov 20 2008, 10:39 PM Post #242
          Group: Senior Member - Posts: 1103 - Joined: 15-May 05 - Member No.: 697
Check these out:  Online texts and books to be read:
Evolution of the Semitic faiths

Nailing down The Big Lie: "Jesus", the Roman invention
Christianity: When "God" wants you to kill others - Part I
Islam: When "God (New and Improved)" wants you to kill others - Part II
Sanatana Dharma: Often imitated, but never duplicated
Egyptian seal of Christ myth: The Pagan Christ
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dhu
  Nov 23 2008, 06:26 AM Post #243
          Group: Senior Member - Posts: 1779 - Joined: 17-April 04 - Member No.: 272
Check this out:  Hindi Panchatantra - 18
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ramana  Dec 5 2008, 02:23 AM Post #248
          Group: Senior Member - Posts: 1905 - Joined: 3-October 03 - Member No.: 99
Dhu, You need ot read Freud's "Moses and monotheism" He is clear that all those religios are based on political needs and an idea of universal empire. He traces the origins to the 18 Dynasty Pharoh who for whatever reasons acquired an Empire beyond Egypt and needed to craft a religoion that was beyond Egypt's theogny. And his intimate was Thutmose who took the religion to the frontier tribes some of whom were enslaved. Thutmose is Moses. They latter killed him in revolt as his version was harsh to their sensibilities and that led to the forty years of wandering. Very gripping. So it could be the same type of rehash a few centuries later.
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dhu
  Dec 16 2008, 06:54 AM Post #253
          Group: Senior Member - Posts: 1779 - Joined: 17-April 04 - Member No.: 272
The Saint, The Criminal And The Terrorist. - QUOTE:

Actually, the act goes beyond transformation: terrorism is trans-substantiated crime. "Trans-substantiation" refers to the miraculous transformation of some particular substance into another one. (During the Mass, for instance, Roman-Catholics believe that bread and wine are transformed into the body and blood of Christ.) This happens in the case of terrorism as well: crime becomes morally praiseworthy. It does not concern so much a particular crime, but rather the transformation of the entire domain of crime. This trans-substantiation results in the re-presentation of crime as morally praiseworthy. We suggest that what brings about this "miracle" is an ideology, which we would like to call "the ideology of crime". It is our hypothesis that such an ideology exists today and that acts of crime can become acts of terrorism because of what this ideology does and how it does so.

We know that Trans-substantiation as portrayed in the roman gospels encompasses getting the colonized to feast (ironically) on their own awaited Messiah, whose identity is actually overtaken (again ironically) by the colonial power. This would suggest that one function of the gospels was to normalize the crimes of the colonial power (as terrorism).
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ramana  Dec 16 2008, 11:35 PM Post #254
          Group: Senior Member - Posts: 1905 - Joined: 3-October 03 - Member No.: 99
Dhu, Again try to get hold of Freud's "Moses and Montheism". Its on Amazon's used books. The book is unputdownable in view of the current problems. He explains the blood letting of Jahve.
          Also see the works of Eduard Meyer on Moses. Looks like it was always a political movement. They had no idea of separation of church and state in all these 'religions'.
          Freud says the idea of ploitical leader and religious head comes from the way Moses behaved to the Jewish people. And he got that from the Pharaohs!
          In a way all the things we are seeing is the rejected faith of Akhenaton that is morphing its way in many forms - Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Marxism, Secualrism, and Nazism.- All are methods of political control of people by means of "religion/killigion". - Talk of the revenge of the Pharaohs!   -  Try this sample :
          Freud on Moses  ( www.moses-egypt.net/book-series/ovs_related-articles-c_en.asp ) - Has some illustrations also.
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India Discussion Forum,  - India-Forum.com - news and analysis -  http://www.india-forum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2067&pid=91937&st=240&#entry91937  -  (15.Dec.2008)

       
Sidetop
¤ Discussiongroups, Graham Hancock website, June 2008  -  opinions:
Read this man's work - get another view on 18th dyn.

http://www.grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=244662&t=244233
Graham Hancock website: Mysteries - for serious discussion of the controversies, approaches and enigmas surrounding the origins and development of the human species and of human civilization. - Item: Polestar Exchange? - the vulture and serpent

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Hi Turnofthetide. - Senmut was a heir to the throne on flight. Senmut was Neferure's teacher and she was intiated early as wife of the god, they should have been married together despite of the bloodline, royal brothers and sisters were often married in ancient Egypt. Neferure became Hatshepsut's co-regent . 19 years of peace under the reign of Hatshepsut - it was first under Tuthmosis III the battles begun with Canaanite kings and the Nubians in south, and all the years under Tuthmosis III reign Egypt was constantly at wars in north and south. Senmut and Tuthmosis was fighting each others - Senmut wanted his right to the throne back.
          Tuthmosis III was a great copycat and used Senmuts skills against him, Tuthmosis III took even credit for Khu mennu/Amon temple hall, but it was Senmut work, it seems that these obelisks in honour of Hatshepsut father Tuthmosis I costed him dearly, and yes the carvings of Tuthmosis III's name on the obelisks have been  poorly restored exactly were he cut out Senmut's name and replaced it with his own.
          Aah-Cheperen-Ra/Tuthmosis II and Thermoutis/Hatshepsut (daughter of Tuthmosis I) had no male children together, but Tuthmosis II had a child with with his concubine Iset - this child became later Tuthmosis III. However, Hatshepsut had a child with Reuel/Hobab/Jethro(the Nile god) - by hieros gamos ritual) gave birth to Senmut/Mosis according to new research and ancient historians as well. ...
          (Concerning "the Turnofthetide claim": Senmut's parents, their burial on display at the Met in NYC):  Was not his biological parents, was his nurse and his teacher, unfortunately all this research is still in Danish only... But you can have a sneak peek here:
http://www.moses-egypt.net/book1/moses1-cap1_en.asp
http://www.moses-egypt.net/book1/moses1-cap2_en.asp
http://www.moses-egypt.net/book1/moses1-cap3_en.asp

martinpescatore, (84.142.83.---) - Date: 19-Jun-08 08:38 - Re: Polestar Exchange? - the vulture and serpent - http://www.grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=244662&t=244233  -  (21.Jun.2008)

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... I am not aware of any original source information that Senemut became an outcast. The priesthood contrary to common view was not that powerful during the early 18th Dynasty. And ironically, it was Thutmose III who provided the huge economic base to the priesthood that may have stirred up trouble for the last of his successors. Trying to make Senemut into Moses does not fly. During his time all of the Sinai and the Levant was Egypt. There was no exodus, if ever there was one, during his lifetime.
          I am interest in any good reference to work connecting Hatshepsut's mortuary temple to celestial markers.

turnofthetide, (76.14.16.---) - Date: 21-Jun-08 01:43 - Re: Polestar Exchange? - the vulture and serpent - http://www.grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=244662&t=244233  -  (21.Jun.2008)

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Just read a bit from texts by the man (Ove von Spaeth) who's website I linked to - and you might start to have another sight of 18 dyn. history. - And yes there is a lot of ancient scripts to look at which gives another picture, if you just want to sit the next 20 years in libraries all over Europe to dig up evidence, of all kind of sources, this of course most if biblical scholars etc. continue to refuse his work, fine with me, the only problem is that one track of searching is not enough to give a full picture ...
          And what is wrong with internet to give you a sight as long you can't read my language and his 5 volume work, and English is not my mothertongue. Best - Martini

martinpescatore, (84.142.87.---) - Date: 21-Jun-08 17:35 - Re: Polestar Exchange? - the vulture and serpent - http://www.grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=244662&t=244233  -  (21.Jun.2008)

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I took a look at Ove von Spaeth's work, that is the comments about it and some basic claims. It is an extensive amount to work, but in part based on some extreme oversights. As to Moses, he asserts Senemut was Moses and also the son of Hatshepsut. But Hatshepsut and Senemut were fairly close in age, and Senemut may have been older than Hatshepsut. Senemut is protrayed as an adult when he was the tutor to a very young Neferure. More damning is that if Senemut was Hatshepsut's son and there was a desire to make him Pharaoh, Thutmose III would never have been given command of the military during her lifetime. The military could trump the ordinary priesthood. - Best wishes for you.

turnofthetide, (76.14.16.---) - Date: 21-Jun-08 19:56 - Re: Polestar Exchange? - the vulture and serpent - http://www.grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=244662&t=244233  -  (21.Jun.2008)

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Chnemet-Amun Hatshepsut b 1551 crowned 1534 as her father Tuthmosis I's co-regent, all that can you read directly in her tempel Deir el-Bahari.
          Senmut born May 1534 bc (According to the starmap in his mortuary) crowned 1531 bc as heir to the throne acc. Cicero, Dioderus, Eusebius, Justin, Origenes, Philo Judaeus, Pollio Trebillius, Manetho, Tacitus, Artapanus, Eupolemus, - and this is just a short list of ancient writers about Senmut/Moses. - But as I told before it's important to read all (of Ove von Spaeth's) 5 books to get a full picture of that era.

martinpescatore, (84.142.57.---) - Date: 22-Jun-08 12:49 - Re: Polestar Exchange? - the vulture and serpent - http://www.grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=244662&t=244233  -  (22.Jun.2008)

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Richard, - As keeper of the calendar why should Senmut as the only one at that time depict a
rare planet conjunction which it possible to date - and have been mentioned by Rabbi Abranel and other very old sources. - Nobody before and the next 300 years was able to make such, at that time, new kind of celestial starmap without having been highly initiated in star-knowledge as a priest. Cf.:
http://www.moses-egypt.net/book-series/debates-continuing-a_en.asp
http://www.moses-egypt.net/book2/moses2-introduc_en.asp#5
 
          When you say:  Here is a fact, in one of his tombs there are steles, and steles 4 and 5 (South Wall) states: "The steward of the granaries of Amun, Senemut, justified, born of Ramose from the body of Hatnofer". - Answer:  In Egyptian language it is - as normally - to be read in many ways, and even Hatshepsut had a statue of her nurse Sitre (Inet) (Carter 1903) in Deir el-Bahari, that doesn't mean she was her biological mother but was highly loved and respected person.
          In all my text here also most of the following facts are found in Ove von Spaeth's works - and they are well-researched and well-known in Egyptology:

          First, it was normal in AE - and still is today among the Arabs - that if a person is breastfeed by his nurse, she is called his mother and her own children are also called his brothers and sisters.
          Senmuts so-called "parents" were employees at the court, Hatnofer was royal nurse, - if Senmut have not been of royal blood, he would not have been nursed by a royal nurse. Hatshepsut had the royal title title "The Father's Sister" (the father was Tuthmosis I), and Senmut also had such name in principle - Senmut means "The Mother's Brother".
          And then some question: Why didn't Senmut NEVER mention Tuthmosis II or Tuthmosis III as well in his inscriptions but only mention H and her father Tuthmosis I in his work which there is a lot of all over Egypt?
          When TII was crowned he was of a lower bloodline than H. - TII's parent was TI and concubine Mutnofret. - Hatshepsut parent was TI and queen Ahmosis, that's why she is crowned at a young age where TII only was approx. 11-12 years and H 14-15.
          Ancient text says that Tuthmosis II disliked the child of H, of course it wasn't his son probably because he was not old enough or initiated to play the Nile god in the hiero gamos act which was an important part and ritual.

          Why was Senmut depicted as foreign minister in the official tomb TT71, were he receive foreign ambassadeurs, it is also unusual that it is the first depiction of (pre)Aegean represents in upper Egypt. Beautiful non egyptian paintings and decorations in a kind of Minoan style and 16-sided beautiful pillars and titles as Minister of foreign affairs was also a post to possess for upcoming Pharohs.
           Why was Senmut at an early age of mid 20's sent to Punt (Deir el-Bahari) as a general? was it possible for a common boy of a poor family? - a general in his 20's, he must have been quite extraordinary and already at that time had showed unique skills in diplomacy and warfare.
          His skills as architect is beyond dispute his own official tomb TT71 where statue of he and Neferure, and all over inside and outside the tomb is found material and stones with magic projection of his names which was common ritual: "They were not to be seen by deadly eyes".
          Senmut also had several of his inscriptions hidden under layers of gypsum in TT71. He used foreign workers to keep the work secret, mostly African and Asiatic names are found in the workers intern communication. It is here he also inscribed the words that by any destruction of his statue the destructor will be never ... etc. (search for that).

          Many of his statues is cubic formed and he raised quite a lot of statues, selfportraits, around in Egypt, which was common for a pharaoh and would not be allowed for a ordinary building constructor in such extreme extent
          Many of Senmut statues are double statues there shows both him and Neferure the young co-regent and Neferure with the royal sceptre in the hand. A public emphasize of Senmut intimates a clear relationship with the royal power. Similar statues of him are found in Sinai.
          He invented rebus to hide names. Look at D-el-B over the doors in H's temple. Goddess Nechbet flyes as a big white bird, with accentuated eyes and with the KA-sign in the "claws", together it's a code formed as a syllable code. - The white wild goose er highest god Amun's symbol, while the goddess is law-god Maat, to all of which is added ka-symbol and the eyes, meaning "Re" - together this code produces the name: Maat-ka-Re.
          Maat-ka-Re was most used name-of-the-throne for Chemet(t)Amun Hatshepsut, - cf. books by French Egyptologist, Ètienne Drioton, who solved some of the name protection 'codes'.

          Senmut  mentions himself as the inventor of this rebus system 'cryptoglyph' at the black granite statue (together with Neferure), now in Cairo and another one in Berlin. Why doing this and why make two secret tombs - one for H and one for himself - written all over them that it was him who built them, a commoner would not be allowed to do that and not making an obviously royal tomb for himself and with a granite sarcophagus etc. a masterpiece - and why suddenly abandon it before it was finished, and tring to finish the secret tomb:
          Again, the Senmut tomb no. TT71 was the first of its kind in Sheik Abd el Gurney, and Inemi (architect in mid-kingdom) seem to have inspired him a bit and is a forerunner by his constructions of the temple at Deir el Bahari (which high-priest, Hapuseneb, took over because of the untraditionel structure of power).
          TT71 have 148 m2 floor which is of royal size and the biggest in the area. P.F. Doorman can't understand why Senmut had 2 tombs and suggest this first design was his chapel though a tomb was always built first (and this one even with a sarcophagus) and though Senmut, also, had built a chapel at Geb es-Silsaleh.

          In the underground in front of the tombs impressing entrance was found, in 1936, a simple family tomb under layers of waste from the Senmut tomb. Burried under the waste 8 coffins of mummies including Senmuts 'foster-parents' was found - and a horse was buried nearby in with full ornament. Privatly owened horses was rare in Egypt at that time, and only belonged to Pharaoh.
         Here, the archaeologs have also found 4 other persons from Senmut's household: Harmose (music teacher) buried near his fosterparents and the manager Tusy incl. 2 unknown. All sign of a quick funeral - and tNefurere's cartouche is marked on some of the linned stating that it is of older date and at that time Nefurere must have been tone of voice when she disappeared if she had royal monogram. It is discussed that they all died more or less at the same time, were they all murdered? and could fostermother Hanofer also have been nurse for Neferure?

          Hatshepsut's name has been found in 12 places or cases in Ramose and Hatnufer family tomb, 6 of the times added: King of Egypt. H took over at approx. 1509 and was crowned 1502 so the graves are from after this period. Jars doesn't tell the precise date or age of the entomb and also when Senmut started to built his own official tomb which indicates 1502.
          At that time Tuthmosis III must have been 8-9 years and he is not mentioned at all. But he have carved his own name in a lot of Senmut statues, which was ready to be engraved with Senmuts royal name when he was supposed to be Pharaoh, which also was common. TIII's robbery of Senmut's identity and destroying H's name in disrespect after this new pharaoh TIII came to power, and there is also found a Senmut statue used as deposit in TIII poorly built temple, and TIII's name is carved on it.
          Once again, TIII was never crowned but was strongly supported by the Amun-priesthood who hated Senmut, and they put TIII to power.
          Nobody has ever as Senmut been in possession of or left so many traces of royal family background - which made it possible for him to combine his career among other things as deputy of Pharaoh, astronomer and architect.

          Why Neferure had disappeared suddenly? Neferure was the first daughter of TII-H (TII and H didn't have male children together). They had at least the daughters: 1: Nefurere and 2: Maitre-Hatshepsut. Nefurere was actually more royal than Tuthmosis III, and where is her tomb? had she been killed? and where is the body? Conspiracy? So there is something utterly mystic.
          And unfortunately Senmut and Hatshepsut couldn't go against TIII's damnation memoria-action. Which also hit Senmen, another of Senmut entrusted men!
          H died also suddenly - she disappeared a couple of years after Senmut disappeared,- was she killed? We'll know when science have cross-examined what they say is Hatshepsut it will give valuable information for further research. And I suppose if the Dna test had been good you'd probably have seen dr. Hawass announced it with a fanfare and now it is more than 1 year ago, - strange that he seems to have forgot to tell us more about the mummy he claims is Hatshepsut.

          And again there is a tons of material there is now available it was analysed, and put together from more than 1000 different sources - just call it contorted evidence. This research, carried out by Ove von Spaeth, is also suited for further evaluation and research, and when you call it nonsense, then you also say the quoted ancient writers and texts of Antiquity are completely nonsense although the ancient scholars and writers had access to valuable documents and have copied information from these, - a pity the Alexandria library was burned.
          Again! this is only very small part (and probably hard to read because of my Danglish) of the meticulously documented and coherent picture that Ove von Spaeth presents and which is open for being objectively verified and explored by any future science etc.
          And at last I'm not here to say what is right or wrong, Ove von Spaeth's work, just interest me because his research and sources are huge and bring up so much information and knowledge for further research. - Best regards, Martin

martinpescatore, (84.142.100.---) - Date: 24-Jun-08 10:58 - Re: Polestar Exchange? - the vulture and serpent - http://www.grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=244662&t=244233  -  (24.Jun.2008)

¤ isgodimaginary.com -  23 November 2009  -  forum: 
The five-pointed Egyptian star of Chiun

Quote from: nateswift on November 21, 2009, 04:40:26 PM
          Interesting point, though. The star mentioned in "Amos" is representative of an Egyptian god that was worshipped by the Hebrews in the Desert after Egypt. Connecting it with the "Star of David" is just another example of "a little learning is a dangerous thing...." That star represented in Egyptian heiroglyphs is 5 pointed
          The talisman symbol of the god mentioned in the book of Amos Amos, Chiun (Saturn):
          In the larger text has the god's name given as Rempha (found in the Greek translation of Amos, used by Jesus and the Apostles, and recorded in Acts by Luke). The text also identifies the star Saturn. (The bull represents the constellation Taurus, or possibly the Egyptian version of Saturn.) Israel uses on its flag a pagan symbol condemned by Hebrew scriptures.
          Tell me about the five-pointed Egyptian star of Chiun.
_

« Reply #48 on: November 23, 2009, at 01:52:33 AM » 23.11.09
Well, I looked up the talsman you note, and it is cited in a number of sites that are blatantly anti-Israel and I didn't see any sources for their assertions. I didn't see any sites using the materiel that did not follow that description.
          I have seen three sites that may be interesting:
http://www.atlantisquest.com/Hiero.html

http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut1-mapdate_en.asp

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=38&letter=M
          The first two show Egyptian heiroglyphs using 5 pointed stars, and the third discusses star symbols associated with Judaism (unofficial, since even symbols are discouraged by Jewish orthodoxy, apparently).

nateswift, strange, but Valued Member, - Karma: +109/-9, - Posts: 530 -
http://isgodimaginary.com/forum/index.php/topic,40571.30/topicseen.html



 
 
3  DEBATE AND NEWS ON OVE VON SPAETH'S DATING THE OLDEST EGYPTIAN STAR MAP
- evt. praktisk at kunne læse teksten off-line
¤ Aspiranten (Norway), 3 year, no. 6, June 2004, pp. 7-14  -  feature:
Nostradamus - and the New Millennium

"... Michel de Notredame, doctor and legendary prophecy writer in the renaissance, was very famous most of his life and far beyond, even up till today - and also much debated.
          Scientifically, and without a key, it is difficult to say whether - in the mid-1600 century - he was able to predict Napoleon and Hitler in later centuries, - although, names, times, and places might have a similarity with historic facts. However, modern astronomy computation can be used on a hitherto missed out part of his statements concerning the year 1999. The result proved to hit a special phenomenon of time.
          The number 1999 is published as "open", being the only exact year he ever stated in his writings; and Basiliscus/Regulus is the only star placed exactly in the "track of the sun", which really is the track of the earth: the Ecliptic. This track is the only part of the sky where solar eclipses and lunar eclipses can take place - thus the name Ecliptic, the 'eclipse' line. ..."  .....
          (Read the whole article: http://www.thirax.dk/artikler/OveSpaeth/Ove18/index-uk.html )

Article by OVE VON SPAETH: 'Nostradamus - And the New Millennium'
          copyright © 1998 & copyright © 2004 - www.moses-egypt.net

Aspiranten (Norway, -  article by Ove von Spaeth on Nostradamus and the New Millennium  -  3 year, no. 6, 2004, pp. 7-14  -  http://www.teosofi.info/aspiranten/aspiranten-1.php?l=no   -  (jun.2004)

       
Sidetop
¤ discussiongroups, - Thunderbolts Forum, 19 July 2008  -  comments:
Quantavolution - the star, and crystalline life

Thunderbolts Forum • View topic - Quantavolution,Solaria Binaria  - http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&p=8496
Thunderbolts Forum - For discussion of Electric Universe and Plasma Cosmology themes.   -  Board index ‹ The Human Question
_

Re: Quantavolution,Solaria Binaria,Homo Schizoid,Bicameral Mind
          In The Mysteries of the Great Cross of Hendaye, Alechemy and the End of Time, Jay Weidner and Vincent Bridges talk about alchemy and the "Science of Light" (Pages 248-255)

          To the kabbalist, the lightning flash, the creative sequence of the unfolding Light, reveals the underlying structure of reality in the ten sefirot. In the symbolic Kabbalah, this lightening flash becomes the flaming sword. In Fulcanelli's hands the image becomes the sword in stone, the alchemical extraction of knowledge from the Stone of the Wise, which initiates the Golden Age, a new Camelot, here on earth.
          These three nails are the anchor points of the three axes of the Galaxy, the clue to understanding the true ancient nature of the cross.
          To the ancient Egyptians, the Tree of Life was symbolized by the Djed pillar, the backbone of Osiris. Djedd, the same words with a slightly different emphasis, means "star" or actually the culmination or azimuth of the star. This same word, djedd, is also a perfectly good Hebrew word dzeth, and they both mean "olive tree."
          Somehow the cross, the ankh, became a stone, and not just any stone, but the rejected stone that became the headstone of the corner, the support upon which Jesus built his church. And somehow this is the "first matter, "the First Stone", the cornerstone of the alchemical Great Work. Just how does a tree (the ankh that contains the entire Tree of Life and the cross is a component of the World Tree) become a stone?
          The answer seems to lie with the ancient myths of the World Tree at whose feet, in many if not most of the very ancient myths, there can be found a stone or a cube that is somehow plugging up the torrent of the deluge.
          The first of our five symbolic components, the stone from which the sword of wisdom is extracted, is the cross/stone of space-time itself, the Cube of Space formed from the three axes of the Galaxy.
          It was the earliest prototype for the obelisk and maybe also for the pyramid, and it is believed perhaps to symbolize the petrified semen of Atum.

The Star:

Decoding the Legend
http://www.decodingmythology.com/george/george11.html

The Cosmic Mill
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/heather.hobden1/magicmill.htm

World-axis, Senmut and sky tradition
http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut5-world-axis_en.asp

Wheel Crosses and World Ages
http://home6.inet.tele.dk/cordua/Verdensaldre-uk.htm

As above, so below …

Soliton and Freemasonry
http://www.gnn.tv/threads/5919/soliton_and_freemasonry

          This article summarizes the essential scientific concepts behind the plan to literally transform the whole planet into a superconductive holograph that bends spacetime.

          Quantum chaos is the top cutting-edge field of Freemasonic science and quantum chaos is the statistical control of light applied to unpredictable macroevents.
          The secret to solving this Long Term Potential conundrum is again alchemical resonance that most efficiently occurs through the yin-yang, sinusoidal (or sine) wave of complimentary opposites.
          This secret is why the Tesla Coil  only uses sine waves or harmonic waves and quantum chaos already acknowledges that the sine wave creates a "hidden coherence" that bends spacetime. The sine wave is the secret behind current faster-than-light quantum electronics as detailed by physic professors Raymond Chiao and Carl R. Hagen.
          When the rate of change between frequency and amplitude is close to zero, the secret of
quantum chaos science, then a self-sustaining resonance occurs. This is because the spiral of energy drives itself through superconductive resonance and then when the vacuum is reached antigravity is created.
          This same free energy process occurs with the antigravity uplift in the center of a tornado and is what Victor Schauberger called the "cycloid-spiral space-curve motion.

lizzie, - Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:31 pm (Posts: 271 - Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:55 am) http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&p=8496  -  (19.Jul.2008)

- - - - -
Re: Quantavolution,Solaria Binaria,Homo Schizoid,Bicameral Mind
A continuation on the topic in the above post:
          Life on earth was supposed to have been seeded from the stars. What if life was originally silicon based because of these extraterrestrial minerals? Carbon-based life as we know it today was "post deluvian."

Building blocks for life found in meteorite
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/content/news/news/1412/

To be silicon based would involve some form of crystalline life - maybe using carbon as a skeleton or defense material?

1) Silicon based life: Chiral liquid crystal polymers.
          Fullerene Compounds with Organic Crystalline and Liquid-crystalline Substances
http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA242400

2) Carbon as a Skeleton: Fullerines.
http://vs.ioffe.net/iwfac/2005/abstr/iwfac05_p092_141.pdf

What is the connection between a virus and a crystal?
          Well, sometimes a virus is a crystal. They can crystallise and (as far as I know) still be infectious afterwards. Indeed, biological crystallography is based on the idea that proteins crystallise (and diffract) just like minerals. So what's the difference between a protein crystal and a salt crystal?
          So is it at all possible to have mineral organisms? Well, there is (at least) one feasible hypothesis that involves quite complex inorganic crystals and mechanisms for their replication and selection. This mineral is clay: or structures like it. Clays form a heterogeneous group of crystal forms that are relatively sensitive to environmental conditions for their growth. They also 'breed' by breaking in half to form two new crystals. Their shapes are heritable, in the sense that the grain pattern templates new layers with the same pattern. Like stacking carpets according to the direction of the arrows woven into them.

Why are there so many creation myths where a god formed humans out of clay?

Anishinaabe
http://www.billcasselman.com/unpublished_works/anishinaabe.htm

One striking feature of the Adam and Eve creation myth in Genesis is the pottery metaphor: a god formed humans from clay or dust. This is a worldwide element in creation stories.

lizzie, - Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:05 am  (Posts: 271 - Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:55 am) http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=9&p=8496  -  (22.Jul.2008)

¤ Readers' mail, 6 March 2008  -  opinion:
Is Nostradamus read with impression of doomsday?

I have just read your 15 pages text concerning:  Nostradamus - and the New Millennium ..!! and I can relate all what has been written about... and I just want to say that mankind - to be most directly - is now in deep water...    hi, thomas;

thomas, -  6. March 2008 18:23 - thomas_1577@hotmail.com  -  (6.Mar.2008)

(ed. note for moses-egypt.net:)  Ove von Spaeth's article: "Nostradamus - and the New Millennium" is also found via Zenith-files article base or www.thirax.dk. Thomas has read it and reflects somewhat 'pessisimistic'. - For orientation: Ove von Spaeth's analysis is stating, on the contrary, the logics in disarming some alleged 'doomsday'.

¤ 1530s BC  - en.wikipedia.org, 16 December 2007 -  references:
1530s BC

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1530s_BC"
Category: 1530s BC
_

1530s BC - From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Millennia:  2nd millennium BC
Centuries: 17th century BC - 16th century BC - 15th century BC
Decades: 1560s BC 1550s BC 1540s BC - 1530s BC - 1520s BC 1510s BC 1500s BC
Years:  1539 BC 1538 BC 1537 BC 1536 BC 1535 BC 1534 BC 1533 BC 1532 BC 1531 BC 1530 BC
Categories: Births - Deaths - State leaders - Sovereign states - Establishments - Disestablishments

Events and trends
• 1539 BC - End of Seventeenth dynasty of Egypt, start of the Eighteenth Dynasty.
• 1539 BC - Approximate first use of the Valley of the Kings.
• 1534 BC - The oldest dated star chart was made in Ancient Egypt.[1]
• 1530 BC - End of First Dynasty of Babylon and start of the Kassite Dynasty - see History of Iraq.

References
1.  von Spaeth, Ove (1999). "Dating the Oldest Egyptian Star Map". Centaurus International Magazine of the History of Mathematics, Science and Technology 42 (3): 159-179. Retrieved on 2007-10-21.

en.wikipedia.org, 1530s BC - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1530s_BC -  (13.Dec.2007)

       
Sidetop
¤ From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - 22 December 2008  -  OR-valuation: 
His books are considered well-done research

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rursus/Phragmentes 
_

The Egyptians and the stars
Ove von Spaeth's analysis of Egyptian star maps from 1534 BCE:
          -  "New Discovery In the World's Oldest Star Map", requires some analysis of von Spaeth himself, his books and how he is received in the relevant academic branches.
          -  Google on "Ove von Spaeth" 1,080 hits for the dbl blip delimited (") Ove von Spaeth, which indicates some genre-related reknownedness.
          -  My OR (operations research) valuation: he is an independent scholar specialized in the historical existence of Moses, and claims that he was a pure Egyptian of the royal family who lost in the power struggles and allied with the Hebrews in Egypt, this in connection to Ahmose I:s campaign against Hyksos (= Hebrews), his books are considered well done research, acceptable according to academic measures, but probably a little sweeping regarding details and extra theories irrelevant for the main picture.
          Von Spaeth himself expresses an interest in following mainstream academic patterns before subjective and religiously colored thinking, for which he have received criticism from fundamentaloid Christians and some such creatures ... I've independently speculated in Hyksos = Hebrews, and this connection seems to occur now and then among historians, so my OR valuation says that von Spaeth argues validly, although maybe speculatively ...

Rursus, - From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - User:Rursus/Phragmentes - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rursus/Phragmentes  -  (22.Dec.2008)

¤ wikipedia.org, wiki "on Moses" - 4 August 2009  - preliminary text: 
How about Egyptian star maps?

The Pontchartrain Astronomy Society is a non-professional organization. - PAS Forum -  item: 7th century star chart    (The administrator has disabled public write access):    http://www.pasnola.org/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=72&func=view&catid=2&id=877
_

7th century star chart   Posted May 7, 2009 10:02 pm
WSJ article on digitalizing ancient manuscripts has a slide of a 7th century Chinese star chart thought to be the oldest map of the stars. The chart shows 1,339 stars.
online.wsj.com/article/SB124172394666697...d=article-outset-box slide#5/11  It was discovered at the Dunhuang in China and is now in the British Library. If you go to the British Library site, you can read up in the International Dunhung Project www.bl.uk/supportus/idp.html
          Searching the British Library finds more panels from the star chart at
www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/features/silkroad/starchartlge.html  and the following interesting commentary: "By the sixth and seventh century China the stars were part of a complex group of beliefs which ranged from lucky and unlucky days, fengshui, the power of talismans, the predicative power of heavenly signs, to the zodiacal animals. Privately produced almanacs of the time included all these elements and were enormously popular, despite the fact that the making of calendars was strictly reserved for the imperial astronomers."
www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/features/silkroad/themesky.html

Joe, joebreault (User), - Posts: 12  - (7.May.2009)

- - -
Re:7th century star chart   Posted May 10, 2009 10:46 pm
Here's some charts that are much older bit very basic.  www.news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2679675.stm

Kent Birkle, 2nd Vice President, PAS Times Editor, - Posts: 308 - #907  - (10.May.2009)

- - -
Re:7th century star chart   Posted May 10, 2009 10:48 pm
How about Egyptian?  www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut1-mapdate_en.asp

Kent Birkle, 2nd Vice President, PAS Times Editor, - Posts: 308 - #908  - (10.May.2009)

¤ yahoo.com/groups - 19 August 2009  -  opinions: 
Very interesting reading this ancient star map

SCA_Scribes_&_Illumination  -  ISO Castor and Pollux
_

ISO Castor and Pollux
I am looking for period depictions of the Gemini twins, Castor and Pollux. I found one I like from a 15th cent. French manuscript but I have no other documentation for it than that. If anyone has other picture references, websites etc I can look at I would appreciate it. - Thank You, /Master Tristan

Master Tristan, - "Tristan Alexander", <tristan@...> -Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:39 am - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA_Scribes_and_Illumination/message/9061  -   #9061 of 9076  -  (19.Aug.2009)

_

Re: [SCA_S&I] ISO Castor and Pollux
This was very interesting reading, I found this ancient star map so maybe it can be a jumping off point for finding your twins:   http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut5-world-axis_en.asp

AElfwynn, - wendy brown <cas46per@...> - cas46per - Aug 19, 2009 5:14 am  - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA_Scribes_and_Illumination/message/9063 -
(19.Aug.2009)

_

Re: [SCA_S&I] ISO Castor and Pollux
Best bet is to look for medieval astrology tables:  http://www.fire-serpent.com/post/medieval.jpg
and  http://www.newyorkcarver.com/horoscope.htm
          Not much on the web, seemingly, at least not from manuscripts. You might try also seeing if you can find a good pick of the ceiling frescoe of the Sala di Galatea - I could only find small images but the frescoe appears to have quite a few astronomical references in it.
          I did find several astronomical tables in a book I have of medieval drawings, as well as one nice pic in "Astrology in Medieval Manuscripts" from the Yale University Press. Hope that helps.

Tetchubah, Carolyn Richardson <tetchubah@...> - Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:21 am -
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SCA_Scribes_and_Illumination/message/9073  - #9073 of 9076  -  (20.Aug.2009)

       
Sidetop
¤ freeforumzone.leonardo.it  -  27 Agosto 2009  -  forum: 
Egittophilia - archeoastronomica Egizia

egittophilia.freeforumzone.leonardo.it
_

EgiTToPhiLìa »  -  Il mondo degli Egizi: natura, Stato, valori  -  Archeoastronomica Egizia

          Diciamo che l'artista dell'epoca egizia potrebe aver "stilizzato' il tutto, cosa sovente nelle varie civilta' antiche (a parte i cinesi che hanno fatto delle mappe spettacolari!! ma li il culto dell'astrologia/astronomia era al amssimo livello).
          A propsoito conoscete per caso questo libro/dati e il tizio che l'ha fatto? (oddio ma perche' maledizione non mi fa incollare un indirizzo internet? )  : www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut3-treatise_en.asp

Ras-Algehu, -  27/08/2009 16.08  -  http://egittophilia.freeforumzone.leonardo.it/newpost.aspx?a=quote&c=66845&f=66845&idc=329021&idd=8722215&idm=96156292&p=1

¤ AfroCentric Culture by Design - 16 december 2009  -  news-info: 
Updated Ancient Astronomy

New Discovery in the World's Oldest Star Map
UPDATED ANCIENT ASTRONOMY:
          The astronomical knowledge of the ancient Egyptians turns out to be surprising broader than previously imagined. According to a new analysis, the world's oldest star-map seems to contain information of an actual celestial event of its time. This recent discovery, uncovers the earlies scienticfic description of an otherwise rare but not unknown celestial phenomenon.
          The Map configurations have been considered mostly as mythological displays, are now disclolsed to be accurate depictions of a rare gathering of planets in well-defined celestial positions. The information contained in the map refers to a specific point of time. The re-evaluations of this subsequent maps give birth to perspectives: by introducing these new reference points of time, the appropriate chronology of the epoch in question, which has been much disputed, may now be dated with considerably greater precision than hertofore possible.
          Cf. http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut1-mapdate_en.asp 
          This 3,500-year old star map, which decorates one of the ceilings in the tomb of SENMUT (Senenmut) near Luxor (Thebes), appararently demonstrates a previously unknown aspect of the astronomical situation in Egypt around 1,500 BC. This revelations is the result of investigations by Danish researcher Ove von Spaeth, and published in July-August-2000 in vol. 42 of the international journal of history of science "Centaurus".

Kemetic History of Afrika, Posted by Kemetic History of Afrika * Blue Lotus at 10:03 AM - Tuesday, December 16, 2008 - 0 comments - Labels: AfroCentric Culture by Design* -http://www.afrocentricculturebydesign.blogspot.com/2008_12_01_archive.htmlk  -  (16.Dec.2008)

¤ yahoo.com/question/index - 29 June 2009  -  Resolved Question : 
Help with my NaSc project?

Home > Science & Mathematics > Astronomy & Space > Resolved Question
-------------------------------------
          Valet Parking - "NaSc" = "Natural Sciences"

Help with my NaSc project?
I was tasked to research about the Ancient Egyptians' perception of the universe, so that my groupmates and I could compare it's difference from that of the Mayan, Greek, and Chinese. I tried searching, but my searches showed me nothing of importance; the same answers and too little info. So, if you guys know of a reliable source of information from the net, or from any book, please help me out. I appreciate your help. Thanks in advance. God bless.. :)

Riz Brown, (Member since:September 23, 2008) -  http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090628121732AAgO5If  - (29.Jun.2009)

_

Best Answer - Chosen by Voters
Look on the web for "Egyptian Cosmology", - I've given you some links below to study. Source(s):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_religion
http://www.astraltraveler.com/calendars/egyptian.html
http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut4-history_en.asp
http://www.google.com/search?q=egyptian+cosmology&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=

digquick, (Member since: December 30, 2008 ) -  http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090628121732AAgO5If  - (29.Jun.2009)

_

Other  Answers
"Astronomy Before the Telescope" (Christopher Walker) has a lot of stuff about the Ancient Egyptians.

Red Rose, (Member since: May 11, 2007)  -  http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090628121732AAgO5If  - (29.Jun.2009)

¤ DNVI, Forum for Cosmological Information no. 4, - December 2007  -  reference:
Star cult was the world picture of previous times

Star cult was the world picture of previous times and the interpretation of life, cf. "in heaven as on earth". Guidance was sought for life on earth in "as in heaven" because micro cosmos reflects macro cosmos. Everything has a "celestial copy", as Swedenborg also said.
          Without knowing about the symbolism of ancient star knowledge, the profound meaning of many biblical issues cannot be perceived, in particular the Revelation of St. John. When attempting to understand the astro-mythological world picture, which to a wide extent is the basis of the Bible, much insight can be provided by Ove von Spaeth's book, "The Secret Religion" (the 4th volume of the series, "Assassinating Moses", Reitzel Publishers, 2004).
          Ove von Spaeth focuses on the many important layers of the Bible, and in this way he also demonstrates the naivety when interpreting in the literal sense of the biblical words. However, the layers in disguise were only available to those specially initiated.

Ruth Olsen, ed., The New World's Impulse, Forum for Cosmological Information, No. 4, December 2007, 25. year, pp. 6-7. -  www.nyimpuls.dk  - (Dec.2007)

¤ it.wikipedia.org, Storia delle osservazioni, December 2007  -  l'enciclopedia:
Stella

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stella - Da Wikipedia, l'enciclopedia libera.
Storia delle osservazioni

_

Storia delle osservazioni. La Via Lattea. Le stelle hanno da sempre una grande importanza per tutte le culture, sia in ambito religioso sia come ausilio per l'orientamento negli spostamenti e durante la navigazione.
          Gli astronomi antichi ritenevano che le stelle fossero dei puntini immutabili permanentemente incastonati nella sfera celeste. Per convenzione, essi raggrupparono gli astri in costellazioni e se ne servirono per tracciare i percorsi compiuti dai pianeti e dal Sole nel corso dell'anno.[9] Il moto del Sole sullo sfondo delle stelle fisse e dell'orizzonte fu utilizzato per redigere dei calendari, impiegati per regolare le pratiche agricole.[10] Il calendario Gregoriano, utilizzato attualmente in ogni parte del mondo, è un calendario solare basato sull'angolo dell'asse di rotazione terrestre relativo al Sole.
          La più antica ed accurata carta stellare comparve nell'Antico Egitto nel 1534 a.C..[11] Gli astronomi islamici diedero nomi arabi, gran parte dei quali ancor'oggi usati, a un gran numero di stelle, ed inventarono numerosi strumenti astronomici in grado di tenere in conto la posizione degli astri. Nell'XI secolo l'astronomo Abū Rayhān al-Bīrūnī descrisse la nostra galassia, la Via Lattea, come una moltitudine di frammenti dalle proprietà tipiche delle stelle nebulose; calcolò anche la latitudine di alcune stelle durante un'eclissi lunare avvenuta nel 1019.[12]

Note e riferimenti
8.  Dal Dizionario etimologico on-line. URL consultato il 2007-12-25.
9.  George Forbes. History of Astronomy (Free e-book from Project Gutenberg). London, Watts & Co., 1909.
10.  Claus Tøndering. Other ancient calendars. WebExhibits. URL consultato il 2006-12-10.
11.  Ove von Spaeth (1999/2000), Dating the Oldest Egyptian Star Map, Centaurus International Magazine of the History of Mathematics, Science and Technology, 42 (3): 159-179. URL accessed on 2007-10-21.
12.  A. Zahoor. Al-Biruni. Hasanuddin University, 1997. URL consultato il 2007-10-21.

it.wikipedia.org, - Stella, - http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stella  - (25.Dec.2007)

       
Sidetop
¤ Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, Ancient Egyptian technology  -  references :
Ancient Egyptian Astronomy and astrology

Egyptological subjects:  Ancient Egyptian technology.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Ancient Egypt Portal

What the Egyptians invented, devised and improved ... This article is part of WikiProject Ancient Egypt, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Egyptological subjects. (see Wikipedia: Contributing FAQ for more information).

Ancient Egyptian technology
The characteristics of Ancient Egyptian technology are indicated by a set of artifacts and customs that lasted for thousands of years. The Egyptians invented and used many basic machines, such as the ramp and the lever, to aid construction processes. They used rope trusses to stiffen the beam of ships, unknown again until modern engineering.

1.6  Astronomy and astrology
Early Egyptian culture identified celestial objects with deities and spirits. They related these objects (and their movements) to phenomena such as rain, drought, seasons, and tides. It is generally believed that the first "professional" astronomers were religious leaders in the temples, and that their understanding of the "heavens" was seen as "divine", hence astronomy's ancient connection to what is now called astrology. Ancient structures with astronomical alignments (such as Pyramids and temples) probably fulfilled both astronomical and religious functions. Egyptian astrology provided star charts that have been found in Egypt that date as early as 1,500 BC.

22.  Egyptology and Astronomy: 5. "Ancient Egyptians As Skilled Calculators" (website: www.moses-egypt.net).

WikiProject Ancient Egypt, -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ancient_Egyptian_technology   -  (16.Jan.2008)

Sidetop

¤ Discussiongroups, Maurice Fernandez, forum, 20 January 2008  -  recommendation:
Learning Forum - on Evolution of Consciousness

Evolutionary Astrology:  www.mauricefernandez.com . This forum is designed for all who are interested in Astrology and the Evolution of Consciousness.
          Any related questions or discussions are welcome. Maurice will respond together with willing participants to make this a meaningful learning experience. Please take into consideration that this learning forum is not designed for personal counselling or group therapy, hence, when discussing your own chart, try to formulate your question in a way that would make it an informative astrological study for everyone.
          - January 20, 2008, a recommendation:
http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut5-world-axis_en.asp 
- especially:  http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut5-world-axis_en.asp#4

Gimel,  Evolutionary Astrology, - Posted, Jan 20 2008 : 01:56:38  -  © 2000-02 Snitz Communications  -  http://www.mauricefernandez.com/forum_eng/post.asp?method=Reply&TOPIC_ID=8240&FORUM_ID=3  -  (20.Jan.2007)

¤ Star - wikipedia.org/wiki/Star, Brunei Darussalam,  October 2007  -  references :
Star - Wikipedia, Brunei Darussalam -  তারা

 উইকিপিডিয়া, মুক্ত বিশ্বকোষ থেকে
(নক্ষত্র (তারা) থেকে ঘুরে এসেছে)


পর্যবেক্ষণের ইতিহাস
প্রতিটি সংস্কৃতিতেই তারা বিশেষ গুরুত্ব বহন করতো। ধর্ম চর্চায় এর ব্যবহার ছিল সবচেয়ে বেশী। এছাড়া তারার মাধ্যমে নাবিকরা দিক নির্ণয় করতো এবং ঋতুর সাথে এর সম্পর্কটিও মানুষ অনেক আগে বুঝতে পেরেছিল। প্রাচীন জ্যোতির্বিদরা অনেকেই বিশ্বাস করতেন, তারা স্বর্গীয় গোলকে নির্দিষ্ট স্থানে আবদ্ধ আছে এবং এরা অপরিবর্তনীয়। চলতি প্রথা অনুযায়ী তারা তারাগুলোকে কিছু তারামণ্ডলে ভাগ করেছিলেন এবং এই মণ্ডলগুলোর মাধ্যমে সূর্যের অনুমিত অবস্থান ও গ্রহের গতি সম্বন্ধে ধারণা লাভ করতেন[২]। তারার পটভূমিতে তথা দিগন্তে সূর্যের গতিকে ব্যবহার করে পঞ্জিকা তৈরী করা হতো যা কৃষিকাজে বিশেষ কাজে আসতো। বর্তমানে পৃথিবীর সবচেয়ে বেশী ব্যবহৃত পঞ্জিকা জর্জীয় পঞ্জিকা সৌরকেন্দ্রিক। সূর্যের সাপেক্ষে পৃথিবীর ঘূর্ণন অক্ষের কোণগুলোর মাধ্যমে এই পঞ্জিকা নির্মিত হয়।

জানা মতে সঠিকভাবে প্রস্তুতকৃত প্রাচীনতম পঞ্জিকা নির্মাণ করেছিল প্রাচীন মিশরীয়রা, ১,৫৩৪ খ্রিস্টপূর্বাব্দে[৩]। ইসলামী জ্যোতির্বজ্ঞানীরা অনেক তারার আরবী নাম দিয়েছিলেন যার অনেকগুলো এখনও ব্যবহৃত হয়। এছাড়া তারা তারার অবস্থান নির্ণয়ের জন্য প্রচুর জ্যোতির্বৈজ্ঞানিক যন্ত্র নির্মাণ করেছিলেন। একাদশ শতাব্দীতে আবু রাইহান আল-বিরুনি আকাশগঙ্গা ছায়াপথকে বিপুল সংখ্যক ভগ্নাংশের সমন্বয়ে গঠিত বলে ব্যাখ্যা করেন। এর ভগ্নাংশগুলোর নীহারিকময় তারার মত ধর্ম রয়েছে বলেও তিনি উল্লেখ করেন। ১০১৯ সালের এক চন্দ্র গ্রহণের সময় তিনি বিভিন্ন তারার অক্ষাংশও নির্ণয় করেছিলেন।[৪]
তারাকে স্বর্গীয় অপরিবর্তনীয় বস্তুরূপে কল্পনা করলেও চৈনিক জ্যোতির্বিদরা বুঝতে পেরেছিলেন, নতুন তারার উদ্ভব হতে পারে[৫]।

References
1.   Online Etymology Dictionary. 2007-09-21 তারিখে সংগৃহীত।
2.   George Forbes (1909). History of Astronomy (Free e-book from Project Gutenberg), London: Watts & Co..
3.   von Spaeth, Ove (2000). "Dating the Oldest Egyptian Star Map". Centaurus International Magazine of the History of Mathematics, Science and Technology, 42 (3): 159-179. Retrieved on 2007-10-21.
4.   Zahoor, A. (1997). Al-Biruni. Hasanuddin University. 2007-10-21 তারিখে সংগৃহীত।
5.   D.H. Clark, F. R. Stephenson (1981-06-29). "The Historical Supernovae". Supernovae: A survey of current research; Proceedings of the Advanced Study Institute: 355–370, Cambridge, England: Dordrecht, D. Reidel Publishing Co.. Retrieved on 2006-09-24.

Wikipedia, Brunei Darussalam,   -  https://the-equalizer.net/c/nph-agent_en/101110A/http/bn.wikipedia.org/wiki/তারা   -   (21.Oct.2007)

       
Sidetop
¤ Jamerah - Empowerment through Information, February 2008  -  recommendation:
The Royal Astrologers

Welcome to Jamara. Empowerment through Information. Mark Taylor Harbin has a Bachelor of Arts in International Relations & Spanish and has a Masters degree in Contracts Management. He is an educated Occupational Health, Safety & Quality Advisor & Auditor since 1987.
_

Throughout life we all have experienced times that might have turned out better if only we had been more informed. Jamerah can provide this for you. You can choose your method. You can meet yourself through astrology, numerology or feng shui. These techniques passed down through the centuries are available for progress in your life.

          Concerning Western Astrology, - Astrology Articles:
"Regents, Admirals - and the Royal Astrologers",  written by Ove von Spaeth:
          "... All through history, in fact all the way up till the 19th century, astrology might be as much involved in politics as for instance financial regards - and it was also a very widespread and natural factor in philosophy of life and in the normal day, e.g. like religion is. Astrology is hardly known in history books - this equals to for instance avoiding mentioning of large parts of the Catholic Church era in Cultural History. ..." 
          -  Read the whole Ove von Spaeth-article here:  "Regents, Admirals - and the Royal Astrologers" :
http://www.jamerah.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=64&Itemid=72

Mark Taylor Harbin: Jamerah,  Empowerment through Information, - http://www.jamerah.com/index.php  -  (February2007)

¤ adsabs.harvard.edu, Bojan Novakovic, (Serbia), 8 January 2008  -  reference:
Senenmut - an Ancient Egyptian Astronomer

          "... The map on the southern panel proves to reflect a special of planets around the longitude of Sirius. The four planets Jupiter, Saturn, Mercury and Venus are relatively easily recognizable. The planet Mars is not included in the actual grouping and at first sight seems to be missing in the map. However, Mars is also pictured in the Senenmut map, but is represented by an empty boat in the west. This seems to refer to the fact that Mars was retrograde so that in this backward movement (well-known phenomenon to the Egyptians) the Mars position was perhaps not considered to be "concrete". Using these facts, Egyptologists were able to date that this particular configuration occured in the sky in 1534 BC (von Spaeth 2000)*. ..."
          *(Von Spaeth 2000) von Spaeth, O., 2000 Centaurus, 42, pp. 159-179.
Boran Novakovic:  "Senenmut: An Ancient Egyptian Astronomer", astro-ph, 8 Jan 2008
- to appear in Publication of Astronomical Observatory of Belgrade (supported by Ministry of Science of Serbia)

Bojan Novakovic, Astronomical Observatory, Volgina 7, 11160 Belgrade 74, Serbia.  Tue, 8 Jan 2008 22:42:42 GMT -  http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0801/0801.1331v1.pdf  -  (8.Jan.2008)

- - -

Abstract
The celestial phenomenon have always been a source of wonder and interest to people, even as long ago as the ancient Egyptians. While the ancient Egyptians did not know all the things about astronomy that we do now, they had a good understanding of the some celestial phenomenon. The achievements in astronomy of ancient Egyptians are relatively well known, but we know very little about the people who made these achievements. The goal of this paper is to bring some light on the life of Senenmut, the chief architect and astronomer during the reign of Queen Hatshepsut.

adsabs.harvard.edu, - SAO/NASA ADS arXiv e-prints Abstract Service, http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2008arXiv0801.1331N

Title:  Senenmut: An Ancient Egyptian Astronomer.
Authors:  Novakovic, Bojan
Publication:  eprint arXiv:0801.1331  -  Publication Date:  01/2008  -  Origin:  ARXIV
Keywords:  Astrophysics
Comment:  to appear in Publication of Astronomical Observatory of Belgrade, Serbia
Bibliographic Code: 2008arXiv0801.1331N

       
Sidetop
¤ wikipedia.org  -  1 December 2009  -  info: 
Geschichte der Astronomie

Die Geschichte der Astronomie umfasst zeitlich die gesamte Kulturgeschichte der Menschheit.
          Die Astronomie wandelte sich von der bloßen Kunde der Beobachtung des Sternenhimmels und seiner Zyklen über die klassisch-geometrische Astronomie, deren älteste Teilgebiete die Positionsastronomie und Ephemeridenrechnung sind, bis hin zur modernen Astrophysik.
          Die Astronomie bestimmt das Selbstbild des Menschen und seine Auffassung von seiner Stellung im Universum mit, heutzutage vor allem durch die Diskussionen über die Entstehung des Universums und die Suche nach bewohnbaren Planeten und Leben außerhalb des Sonnensystems der Erde.

Weblinks [Bearbeiten]
• NASA/Goddard SFC: Sonnenfinsternisse 600–501 v. Chr.
• Der Maya-Kalender
Arbeitskreis Astronomiegeschichte der Astronomischen Gesellschaft
Gesamtüberblick
Ausgewählte Themen detailliert behandelt
Ove von Spaeth: Auswahlbibliographie zur antiken Astronomie:
              ( http://www.moses-egypt.net/book-series/moses_bibliography_en.asp#11 )

Wikipedia,  -  http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geschichte_der_Astronomie -  (1.Dec.2009)

¤ Millennium Mathematics Project, Cambridge  -  1 October 2007  -  edu: 
Early Astronomy and Beginnings of Math Science

University of Cambridge. All rights reserved. -
NRICH is part of the family of activities in the Millennium Mathematics Project, which also includes the Plus and Motivate sites. - email: nrich@damtp.cam.ac.uk
_

Early Astronomy and the Beginnings of a Mathematical Science
The History of Trigonometry - Part 1

The Egyptians divided the 360 degrees of the ecliptic into 36 sections of 10 degrees each. [see Note 1 below]. This division was known before 2300 BCE. Each ten degree section (called a decan from the Greek for ten) contained a constellation of stars lined up along the ecliptic. Since the Earth makes a full rotation in 24 hours, the stars in a new decan will rise above the horizon about every 40 minutes. The system of decans was used for determining the night hours and the seasons.
- This site shows some of the oldest star diagrams from prehistoric times:                       
                                   http://www.spacetoday.org/SolSys/Earth/OldStarCharts.html
- This is a site on Egyptian Astronomy:  http://www.egyptologyonline.com/astronomy.htm
-  Here you can find the 'Decan' chart:
                                   http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut1-mapdate_en.asp
          Notes.  1. The radius of the circle depends on the time of year. The truest E - W direction will be achieved by marking the end of the shadow at sunrise and sunset (possibly at the equinoxes). As long as the times of marking the shadow after sunrise and before sunset are the same, the true E - W direction could still be found. In the surviving documents, there are no diagrams, and the instructions are somewhat ambiguous. These ancient people knew that the diagonal of any rectangle was the square root of the square on the hypotenuse of a right triangle by at least 2,000 BCE. At that time, the square root of the square on the hypotenuse was conceived of as the length of a rope i.e. the side of the square, not a numerical result, as we think of it today.

NRICH, University of Cambridge, - NRICH is part of the family of activities in the Millennium Mathematics Project, which also includes the Plus and Motivate sites, -
email:  nrich@damtp.cam.ac.uk   -  http://nrich.maths.org/6843   -  (1.Oct.2007)

¤ Thunderbolts Forum  -  5 August 2009  -  discussion: 
The Pleiades - and more at the moses-egypt.net

            Thunderbolts Forum. - For discussion of Electric Universe and Plasma Cosmology. -         
             bluehost.com & http://thunderbolts.info

          -
Hi Nick, - Re Thuban as Pole Star. - I'm not overly concerned as to whether it was or it wasn't. My confusion was due to your statement that it wasn't and the grounds upon which you made the statement. For instance are you positive that the Chinese didn't use it? Have you considered that an ancient star map may look nothing like a modern star map. What about the astronomical information embedded in The Iliad and the Bible, and presumably the Vedic literature? Have you eliminated all those? Is this your opinion or Velikovsky's?
          Re the alignment of ancient buildings. The ancients went to great lengths to align their buildings. As I've stated elsewhere, the choices of constellations, asterisms and individual stars were not arbitrary, they were part and parcel of the philosophy.

          Some Egyptian temples have been constructed in a way connecting to the star of Sirius when - each year in the summer after a period of invisibility of 70 days - it rose together with the sun (i.e. Sirius's Heliacal rising) that the light would travel down the temples' main corridor. In that moment, Sirius would place its light at the altar in the innermost sanctum of the temple.
          In a similar way later in Greek temples - for instance in the very Parthenon - being constructed with the direction to the beams of the Stars of the Pleiades. Thus, when the temples were oriented geographically to receive these beams of light into the inner sanctums, the light-rays were described in a symbolic way as being "transformed into seven women", i.e. "The Seven Sisters", The Pleiades:
                    http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut4-history_en.asp
          Re the tomb of Senmut. Velikovsky theorised wrongly. Scholarship has moved on since Velikovsky. Read the above linked article in its entirety, it's long but worth it. There is a navigation menu at the foot of the above link. The article also disagrees with you and the Saturn theorists about the North celestial pole.
          Your references to Plato, Heredotus et al about the planet flipping have no real bearing on precession because a) they may have happened in a previous cycle and b) the would still have been precession if the criteria for precessing were there; the zodiacal constellations would have been different (to the residents of the former northern hemisphere) but the precessing would still have happened.
          As to the question of knowledge of precession prior to Hipparchus, isn't that the central topic of Hamlet's Mill? - The problem Velikovsky and the Saturn theorists have is that they subscribe to Darwinian evolution and therefore, despite protestations to the contrary, view ancients as simple, primitives who couldn't possibly be smarter than moderns. And they all subscribe to the Jungian collective amnesia nonsense despite not having a shred of evidence that there is any such thing as collective amnesia let alone that people from thousands of years ago had it and passed it down to their offspring.

If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, no.53.

Grey Cloud, -  Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:52pm, - Posts: 1540, - (Joined: Apr 13, 2008), - Location: NW UK,  - http://49-17.bluehost.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=24796&sid=57ccd6e8b1a6d549b4967c0fb0610d35  -  (5.Aug.2009)

¤ INIST Diffusion, - Egypte; Etoile; Astronomie; Datation, - 2007  -  reproduction:
Datation précise de la plus ancienne carte des étoiles

Ove von Spaeth:  "La datation de la plus ancienne carte des étoiles égyptienne".
          Résumé / Abstract:  Cet article reprend les éléments qui ont permis d'accéder à une datation précise de la plus ancienne carte des étoiles.
          Mots-clés français / French Keywords:  Egypte ; Etoile ; Astronomie ; Zodiaque ; Antiquité-16 ; Datation ;

          Titre du document:  Dating the Oldest Egyptian star map = La datation de la plus ancienne carte des étoiles égyptienne.  -  Revue / Journal Title:  Centaurus
          Auteur(s) / Author(s):  OVE VON SPAETH (1) ; Affiliation(s) du ou des auteurs / Author(s) Affiliation(s):  (1) Zenith I.C., P.O. Box 1096, 1009 Copenhagen, DANEMARK
          Source / Source:  Centaurus 2000, vol. 42, no3, pp. 159-179 (1 p.1/4).  -  ISSN 0008-8994
          Editeur / Publisher:  Blackwell, Oxford, ROYAUME-UNI (1950) (Revue). Langue / Language:  Anglais.  -  English Keywords:  Egypt ; Star ; Astronomy ; Zodiac ; Antiquity-16 ; Dating ;
          Mots-clés espagnols:  Egipto ; Estrella ; AstronomÍa ; Zodiaco ; Antigüedad-s. 16 ;

INIST Diffusion, - Service Clients,  2 allée du parc de Brabois,  F-54514 Vandoeuvre-lès-Nancy Cedex  - Tél : +33 (0) 3 83 50 46 64  -  Courriel : infoclient@inist.fr  -  http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1146404

Localisation / Location:  INIST-CNRS, Cote INIST : 23143, 35400009116675.0010
Copyright 2007 INIST-CNRS. All rights reserved. Toute reproduction ou diffusion même partielle, par quelque procédé ou sur tout support que ce soit, ne pourra être faite sans l'accord préalable écrit de l'INIST-CNRS.  Nº notice refdoc (ud4): 1146404

¤ Newsgroup Gateway,  NTTP.it  -  23  Settembre 2009  -  discussioni: 
Nella tomba di Senmut

Newsgroup Gateway - Forum dei Newsgroups della gerarchia * - Copyright ©2009, NNTP  - www.nntp.it/discussioni-misteri/2097378-nella-tomba-di-senmut.html
_

Strumenti discussione
Messaggi: n/a  - Nella tomba di Senmut - Bisogna dire che tutto questo e' veramente interessante.
          L'architetto di Hatshepsut (la donna che divenne faraone). Un pannello sul soffitto mostra la sfera celeste con "un orientamento invertito" ovvero il cielo del sud. "Una caratteristica del soffitto di Senmut è l'orientamento astronomicamente discutibile del pannello meridionale". Il centro di questo pannello è occupata dal gruppo del Orione-Sirio, in cui Orione compare ad ovest di Sirio anziché ad est. "Con l'orientamento invertito del pannello del sud, Orione, la costellazione più cospicua del cielo del sud, sembra muoversi verso l'est, cioè, nel senso errato".
          Particolare della volta della tomba di Senmut. - http://www.maat-ka-ra.de/english/personen/senenmut/sen_t353.htm

          Il significato reale "dell'orientamento irrazionale del pannello del sud" e "della posizione invertita di Orione" sembra essere questo: il pannello del sud mostra il cielo dell'Egitto come era prima del nord ed del sud della sfera celeste capovolta, l'est con l'ovest. Il pannello nordico mostra il cielo dell'Egitto come appariva in una certa notte dell'anno nel periodo di Senmut. [Fig. 118 ]
          - Il Papiro egizio noto come Papiro di Anastasio IV contiene cenni sul tempo e sulla carenza di luce solare, in questi termini: "è venuto l'inverno al posto dell'estate, i mesi sono invertiti e le ore in disordine".
http://ib205.tripod.com/senenmut.html  
http://www.institutoestudiosantiguoegipto.com/senenmut/en/senenmut.shtml
http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut3-treatise_en.asp
http://www.think-aboutit.com/images/oly.jpg   <.....................

PulisciTroll , NTTP.it - http://www.nntp.it/discussioni-misteri/2097378-nella-tomba-di-senmut.html  - 23-09-2009, 18.11.09 #1   - (23.Sep.2009)

¤ sv.wikipedia.org, Sweden, - December 2008  -  dictionary item: 
Stjärna - observationshistoria

          http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stj%C3%A4rna

Stjärna. - Observationshistoria. -  Människan har sett upp mot stjärnorna sedan civilisationens gryning, sannolikt ännu längre. Strävan efter kunskap har alltid motiverat studier av himlafenomen både för religiösa och ceremoniella syften såväl som för navigation. Med hjälp av den mänskliga fantasin föddes idén med stjärnbilder, vilka ofta var sammanflätade med den lokala religionen.[3] Systemet med stjärnbilder förbättrades och vidareutvecklades under det andra årtusendet f.Kr. av babylonerna som gav de nuvarande stjärnbilderna i Zodiaken sina namn. De skapade även astronomiska kalendrar som fokuserade på fenomen som kunde användas för att följa årstiderna.
          Även civilisationen i Forntida Egypten innehade framstående kunskaper inom astronomi och astrologi. Detta bevisas bland annat av att världens äldsta bevarade och exakt daterade (1534 f.Kr.) stjärnkarta hittats i närheten av Luxor, Egypten.[4]

[4]^ von Spaeth, Ove, Dating the Oldest Egyptian Star Map (1999) Centaurus International Magazine of the History of Mathematics, Science and Technology. 42. (3).sid. 159-179.

sv.wikipedia.org, Sweden, - dictionary item: Stjärna - http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stj%C3%A4rna  -  (20.Dec.2008)

       
Sidetop
¤ discussiongroups, ancient chronology, tech.groups.yahoo, Jan. 2008  -  discussion
Dating Egypt's oldest star map - more debate

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancient_chronology/message/2648  - concerning :  Dating Egypt's oldest star map: http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut-files_survey_en.asp
_

#        Dating Egypt's oldest star map
Greetings all,   - Brad Sparks, in a March 12,2007 thread, here, entitled 'Babylonian Chronology", said this: - "Moreover, as with other claims of "astronomical fixing" of ancient chronology the dates were originally found by NON-astronomers publishing in non-astronomical journals long before other thousands of tablets were uncovered or studied."
          Please see the following article: - "Dating Egypt's oldest star map" "New Discovery In the World's Oldest Star Map" http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut1-mapdate_en.asp
          There is a 3500 year old Egyptian star map on the tomb of the great Senmut (Senenmut) ---- a star map containing a planetary and star road map in Involving a solar eclipse. Such an alignment, the article argues, can be used for dating purposes.
          I would like to direct Brad and everyone to a section of this website, "Evaluations, response, reviews", which has snippets from about 40 different reviewers, many of which are astronomers.
          "This revelation is the result of investigations by Danish researcher Ove von Spaeth, and is published in July-August 2000 in vol. 42 of the international journal of the history of science, "Centaurus". - i.e: "Centaurus International Magazine of the History of Mathematics, Science, and Technology" 42;3, 2000, pp.159-179.

          The website says only that this solar eclipse occurred in May, 1534 BC ( "-1533" astronomical time). I found the exact date of this solar eclipse, using the 'computer program' on the online planetarium at:  www.skyviewcafe.com , on May 21, -1533 (1534 BC).
          The star map has, in this order :  Venus, Mercury, Saturn, Jupiter, Sirius (a star in Canis Major), Sun&Moon Solar eclipse in Orion, and Mars. - What do you all think?
          FWIW, on May 20 (or 21st (depending on your location on the earth), 1534 BC; Mercury, Jupiter and Venus are in the constellation Gemini, Sun&Moon are in Orion's hand. Saturn is in Taurus. Mars is in Capricornus.
          They appear in that order along the ecliptic (the planetary 'road'). The star 'Sirius', though well off the road, would appear to fit between 'Jupiter' and the 'Sun&Moon'.
          At the time of the above eclipse, you could not see all of the above planets. There was a point in that day where you could perhaps see all of them, however, Mars was on one horizon and the others were on the other.

          The critics, of Ove von Spaeth, argue that while there was a solar eclipse in some parts of the world on May 1534 BC; there was no such eclipse in Egypt. So, I started looking for an eclipse, visible from Cairo Egypt. The following is a list of eclipses or 'close' ellipses that I found, which were visible in Egypt:  July 31, -1564;  May 30, -1561;  Nov 24, -1561;  Sept 11 -1557;  Nov 3, -1551;  Apr 29, -1550;  Feb 15, -1546;  April 20, -1541;  Mar 29, -1539;  Jan 26, -1536;  July 11, -1535;  Nov 25, -1534;
          May 9th, 1533 BC at 17:55pm :  Jupiter in Cancer;  Mars and Mercury in Gemini;  Saturn was in Orion's hand;  Venus was NOT visible during any portion of the eclipse, but it was
close by, near Pisces.
          April 20, 1523 BC 9:48am :  an 'almost' total solar eclipse visible from Cairo, Egypt.
Some other dates which might be worth looking into.... August 2, -1518;  July 22, -1517;  May 20, -1514;  Sept 12 -1511;  Sept 2, -1510;

          It is my GUESS that this is NOT a snapshot of the planets during the time of the eclipse. IOW, not all of the planets were visible during the eclipse or subsequent night. No doubt, some of them (maybe most of them) were visible during the eclipse.
          But say, you were to look at the sky "map", throughout the eclipse, and throughout the nite. And image the planetary path, i.e. ecliptic through the sky as being like a straight road on the map. Imagine the planets are like towns in a certain country, the countries, of which are akin to the constellations. You would see that the Venus is on one side of the map, and Mars on the other. As you scanned this "road map" from left to right, you would see the above planets, star, and SUN&MOON in the order given above. - I'll take some time to verify that above GUESS.
          Toby, - "zoe_lithoi" <zoe_lithoi@...> - Jan 21, 2008, 6:12 pm - http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancient_chronology/message/2648

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#        Re: Dating Egypt's oldest star map
After a quick look I did not see how a solar eclipse in May 1534 BC fits with a planetary conjunction of Feb-March 1537 BC or how they are related.
          Ove von Spaeth is not an astronomer, but is an historical writer and researcher. I didn't see any astronomers conducting a thorough astronomical investigation of von Spaeth's claims.
          Astronomers do not use Gregorian proleptic dates because of an ambiguity in back calculating what Pope Gregory's commission intended or actually decided, so astronomers use Julian calendar days proleptically.
          Fundamentally it is at present impossible to determine whether a solar eclipse path passed over Egypt in 1534 BC or any other dates in the mid-2nd millennium BC because the Delta-T correction for cumulative and unpredictable changes in the slowing of earth's rotation cannot be retrocalculated accurately enough to do so. Only by establishing a century-by-century record of accurate eclipse observations to the present can the Delta-T factor be determined for the era around 1500 BC, and no such record is currently available from around 1500 BC forward.
          Brad, rb47x@...  - Jan 23, 2008, 3:53 am - http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancient_chronology/message/2652

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#        Re: Dating Egypt's oldest star map

Brad wrote: - "Only by establishing a century-by-century record of accurate eclipse observations to the present can the Delta-T factor be determined for the era around 1500 BC, and no such record is currently available from around 1500 BC forward."

Brad, perhaps you are not familiar with Morrison and Stephenson's recent article, published in 2004. - "Morrison, L.V. & Stephenson, F.R., "Historical Values of the Earth&#65533;s Clock Error Delta T and the Calculation of Eclipses", Journal for the History of Astronomy, Vol. 35 Part 3, August 2004, No. 120 (2004), pages 327&#65533;336." Nasa recognizes them as astronomers.... how about you?
          The Nasa website says:  "Values of delta T before AD 1600 pre-date the telescope and are based on historic records of naked eye observations of eclipses and occultations. A number of researchers have made significant contributions in this area. In particular, Morrison and Stephenson (2004) have fit hundreds of records with simple polynomials to achieve a best fit for describing the value of &#916;T from 700 BCE to 1600 CE.
          An abbreviated table of their results follows:.... Values for &#916;T in the past and future are uncertain but may be approximated by extrapolating from known values. However, the further into the past or future that one extrapolates, the greater the uncertainty in &#916;T. "  http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/SEhelp/deltaT.html

      I wanted to use some Nasa data to test out the online planetarium at www.skyviewcafe.com.
I chose one of the most famous lunar eclipses of all time, namely: Eclipse before Arbela battle of Alexander the Great.  2 Greek writers write of this battle: Arrian and Diodorus. One reason this eclipse is so famous, is that some 'Chaldean' astronomers predicted it would happen, and when their prediction came true Alexander the Great (who won the battle), translated their work.
          This eclipse is mentioned in the Astronomical Diaries. (lots of tablets containing astrological data from Babylon, the oldest tablet dates back to 652/651;
          the youngest to 61/60 BCE.). It says:  " Month Ulûlu, day 13: There was a lunar eclipse. It was completely covered at the moment when Jupiter set and Saturn rose. [...] During totality the west wind blew, during clearing the east wind. During the eclipse, deaths and plague occurred."
          Nasa says that this eclipse occured on this date:  -0330 Sep 20 ( 331 Sep 20 BCE). And sure enough, it shows up on that date on the online planetarium. I wanted to check out an older eclipse mentioned on Nasa's website. They have a link to the MSU Physics department:  Ancient and Early Medieval Eclipses in European Sources  http://hbar.phys.msu.su/gorm/atext/ginzele.htm
          The date I chose was this:  "-647, Apr. 6 ;  The solar eclipse observed by the poet Archilochus". - And sure enough, it shows up on that date on the online planetarium as well.

          The oldest date is:  "-1177 Apr 16? Prophecy in Odyssey, in which some see a description
of an eclipse"; And once again, a solar eclipse shows up on that date on the online planetarium as well. - There are some older, historical famous solar eclipses. which I could check out as well.
          This "delta T" problem, Brad speaks of, doesn't seem to be that big of deal to me.
          Toby, - "zoe_lithoi" <zoe_lithoi@...> - Jan 24, 2008, 10:01 am - http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancient_chronology/message/2656

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#        Re: Dating Egypt's oldest star map
Hello, Brad -- I am not deep in this. But here is a possible method. It is generally agreed that a notable solar eclipse passed over the middle east on June 15, 763 BC, I believe that was the eclipse predicted in Amos 8:9. If we take the mention of noon in that text as the time the eclipse would be seen from Samaria -- ok, it may not be precisely high noon, but assume noon for calculations -- perhaps this would give a basis for computing the slowing in the earth's rotation from then to now. That is a period of 2771 years.
          One could project backward from there supposing the average would be similar. I am not sure how much precision would be necessary to improve current estimates. So that if the eclipse was visible in a range of say half an hour before or after theoretical noon, whether this would be sufficient for progress here. --
          David, - DavRice@... davricey  - Jan 24, 2008, 10:01 am -
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancient_chronology/message/2653

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#        Re: Dating Egypt's oldest star map
Hi David, - I think what you are suggesting is that if we take a dubious alleged eclipse such as 763 BC and assume it is correct can we then use it to correct the earth's rotation cumulative Delta-T correction curve for other eclipses before and after. My position is that one cannot jump from the ca. 1600 AD beginning of modern astronomy back to 763 BC without a century by century accurate record of Delta-T values from recorded eclipses or other observations that can give a presumably accurate Delta-T.
          Even a single eclipse is not a good enough data point per century -- after all it is just one data point and it could be completely wrong. Now if the Delta-T curve was cooperative and predictable and single data points fit the curve nicely then we wouldn't have a problem. But we do. Serious problems.
          Astronomers do not generally agree that the solar eclipse of 763 BC passed over Nineveh where it was allegedly recorded. If you'll look at Toby's posting you'll notice that astronomer F. Richard Stephenson's Delta-T corrections stop at 700 BC and do not include the 763 BC eclipse as a corrective data point -- because Stephenson does not regard 763 BC as reliable data.

          If you look at Fred Espenak's NASA website of historical eclipses you'll notice wide discrepancies in Delta-T of over 2,000 seconds (over 1/2 hour) between his own maps and tables for the same eclipses!
          Espenak's NASA table for 763 BC was deliberately forced to fit Nineveh, which required a Delta-T of about 22,300 secs, whereas his map was plotted with Delta-T of about 19,800 secs, a change he introduced without explanation of over 2,500 seconds (over 40 minutes or about 600 miles shifted in longitude). His map has the path of totality pass some 100 miles north of Nineveh, completely missing Assyria. By changing the Delta-T he could force it to pass over Nineveh, and that is what he does in his table.
          As for your proposal: The NASA table for 763 BC has the closest part (southern limit) of the eclipse path passing north of Sidon in Phoenicia about 100 miles away from Samaria at about 9 AM local time. It is nowhere near 12 Noon local time. It is physically impossible to get that eclipse path over Samaria in northern Israel at a local time of about 12 Noon. The absolute time of the eclipse is known accurately (thus also the local time in ancient Israel), since the moon's orbit is predictable and well-behaved, it is the amount of rotation of the earth underneath the moon's shadow that is erratic and unpredictable, so the Delta-T cannot help you.

          Let me illustrate the enormous degree of uncertainty and unpredictability involved here. The Delta-T at around the time of Christ was about 9,000 to 10,000 secs (check the NASA maps and compare with the NASA tables). The broad range of Delta-T values for 763 BC, from 19,800 to 22,300 secs, means that there was roughly an average change in Delta-T of about 1300 to 1800 secs per century.
          If we use the wide range of 1300-1800 secs per century change in Delta-T to project backwards to retrocalculate eclipses in the 1500's BC, then the Delta-T in the 1500's BC could be anywhere from about 30,000 to 34,000 secs (or when one uses a curve instead of a straight line, then about 40,000 to 45,000 secs).
          Which is the correct Delta-T for the 1500's BC? Is it 30,000 or 45,000 or somewhere in between? The difference is over 4 hours or more than 60 degrees of longitude in earth rotation. Most eclipse paths would shift away so far that no eclipse would be seen at all at a given favorite site (only on paths that extend due west-east and are precisely centered might the path still pass over a certain site with a 60-degree shift, but most paths of interest are SW-NE or NW-SE not due W-E). Do you see the problem?

          Amateurs who do not grasp the incorrigible astronomical issues involved can just gloss right over all this, oblivious to scientific facts. I reiterate that there has NEVER been a peer-reviewed professional astronomer investigation of the 763 BC eclipse in a peer-reviewed ASTRONOMICAL (NOT Ancient Near Eastern studies!!) publication. The 763 BC alleged eclipse has never survived peer review by astronomers. The alleged Nineveh eclipse was fabricated by "minimalist" Assyriologists in the 1860's who used it as a weapon to win a battle against the more pro-Biblical "maximalist" Assyriologists arguing over an approximately 42-year difference in Biblical and Assyrian chronology (the "maximalists" defended a Biblical chronology date around ca. 805 BC and there is a candidate eclipse in 809 BC).
          There were no astronomers involved when the 763 BC eclipse was dogmatically asserted for the first time, in 1867, and it was not a product of professional astronomer investigation. How can an eclipse asserted by non-astronomers in 1867 still be accurate in 2007 when the unpredictable changing earth's rotation was not even known until 1939? Were the Assyriologists of 1867 psychic, or were they astronomical geniuses a century ahead of their time???
          Brad, - rb47x@... rb47x  - Jan 24, 2008, 10:00 am - http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancient_chronology/message/2657

_ _ _

#        Re: Dating Egypt's oldest star map

Toby wrote: - I was checking that the eclipses, on the computer program occurred on the dates NASA said they should.

It is a circular argument to express satisfaction that these two eclipses occur on the expected date using the computer program; as the deltaT curve built into the program will have been determined using these eclipses. So all your checking is the programming!
          laurence, - "laurence dixon" <lcwdixon@...> lcwdixon - Jan 25, 2008, 5:40 am -
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancient_chronology/message/2661

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#        Re: Dating Egypt's oldest star map
You missed the point, the programs are ALL written with the same
assumptions built in.
          Mary Christine, - Infowolf1@... infowolf1 - Jan 27, 2008, 5:23 am -http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancient_chronology/message/2665

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#        Re: Dating Egypt's oldest star map

laurence wrote: - It is a circular argument to express satisfaction that these two eclipses occur on the expected date using the computer program; as the deltaT curve built into the program will have been determined using these eclipses. So all your checking is the programming!

Provided the proper Delta-T factor is being used.
          Gene . . . . ... Gene Greenwood - gwoodgeno - Jan 27, 2008, 5:21 pm  -
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancient_chronology/message/2666
_ _ _


tech.groups.yahoo.com
, - group/ancient_chronology - http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancient_chronology/message/2648  -
(21.-28.Jan.2008)

The discussion above was initiated on the basis of Ove von Spaeth's paper "Dating Egypt's oldest star map": www.moses-egypt.net/senmut-files_survey_en.asp

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¤ Thunderbolts Forum  -  5 February 2011   -  ideas for our attention:
The Milky Way and the Light

Thunderbolts Forum  - For discussion of Electric Universe and Plasma Cosmology  -  Board index ‹ New Insights and Mad Ideas - Bill McDonald's General Composite of the Roswell Spacecraft - http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3947&start=105   •  512 posts  •  Page 8 of 35

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?
                                                                                              Moderators: arc-us, MGmirkin

The Milky Way

http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut5-world-axis_en.asp
          (Excerpts of the Ove von Spaeth texts and findings:)
From the Earth we can see our own galaxy almost like the slim area of a diametrical cut of a dish, the very cut as the nesau - the Egyptian expression for the 'Milky Way' - with its light surrounding the cosmic World-axis crossing over the sky from the south to the north.
          The light of the universe has a special quality for the life and this light is being "amplified" when passing through a galaxy. This is what happens - also when the light is passing diametrical via our galaxy outside through its curved rim and, as seen from the Earth, beaming out from the long narrow surface which appears as "the cut", i.e. the bright ribbon-like Milky Way, which in mythology was perceived as the informative and "nourishing" World-tree of Life.
          Likewise, in ancient cultures people could in their own way perceive the Milky Way as the true, enlightening life-supporter in the sky. From the cosmos it is transmitting - according to near future science - the radiation's special bio-energetic light forms.
          Such light, the cosmic all-penetrating radiation light, is forming superstring-like connection and coherence of the universe.
          This light, self-organizing intelligently structured exuding its qualities through our galaxy, was seen as a tool for creating - filling the universe by being the formative as well as informative medium. The universal light itself exists as super-information that never goes away or dissolves (but may vary in levels of appearances); the consistency of such facts enters into the coherence of modern astronomy and quantum physics/mechanics.
          For instance, the ability of transporting data, pictures, and music through light in optic fibre cables - is today a well-known principle. However, far beyond such limited, 'earthly' function the power of the cosmos light is everywhere.
          About "in the beginning" the ancient Egyptian cosmology account mentions "... the first beams of light that lit up the world ..." - and the Bible's Book of Genesis, 1:3, states conjuringly: "... and then there was light ...". The two American research engineers and Nobel Prize recipients, Arno A. Penzias and Robert W. Wilson, found in 1965 the first physical proofs ("the sound of Big Bang") to the hypothesis earlier presented by Pyotr Kapitsa and especially by George Gamow. Penzias and Wilson showed that "light is the origin of the universe" ... "suddenly the universe arranged itself in order and became transparent". ... ...
     (>>> Continue here: http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut5-world-axis_en.asp )

Lizzie, - Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:28 pm  - (Posts: 2868 - Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:55 am) Bill McDonald's General Composite of the Roswell Spacecraft  -  http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3947&start=105   -  (5.Feb.2011).





 
 


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                      >>> Further Debates:

Debate  e, - on the Moses-book-series

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Debate  a, - on the Moses book-series

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Debate - concerning  Moses-Vol. 1

Debate - concerning  Moses-Vol. 2

Debate - concerning  Moses-Vol. 3

Debate - concerning  Moses-Vol. 4

Debate - concerning  Moses-Vol. 5

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Debate - on the Star Map treatise

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A special treasure of knowledge and wisdom of Greece, Rome, and the Renaissance had originated in Ancient Egypt - and was here known to connect also with the historical Moses' dramatic fate and mystery.
          Ove von Spaeth has written an intriguing, new-orientating work presenting this still influential background of our civilization. His interdisciplinary research on history, archaeology, and anthropology goes deeply into Egyptian tradition, history of religion, initiation cults, star-knowledge, and mythology - relating to biblical studies, the Rabbinical Writings, and the authors of Antiquity. Each volume offers unique insights not presented before.
          Special information is presented by clicking on the individual cover illustrations:

(ed.note: reading the orientation is highly recommended. The books are being translated into English)
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