DEBATE, MANIFESTATIONS, AND NEWS CONCERNING THE BOOK-SERIES ON HISTORICAL MOSES
Myspace.com Blogs - The Knights Templar's
Knowledge from Egypt , 25 April 2007 -
Secret Knowledge and Mysteries of Antiquity
The legendary Knights Templar were a military, monastic order with their main
centre at Bernard de Clairvaux's base in the east of France, and with Jerusalem
as an important pole.
For some centuries the
Knights Templar had an amazing cultural and large-scale financial influence in
Europe. It is believed that they had attained a special knowledge of biblical
and ancient Oriental traditions, from Egypt - and from Moses.
However, they suddenly
disappeared from history. Later, parts of the old tradition were observed still
to be in existence inside other societies and brotherhoods. Concerning their secret knowledge and mysteries of antiquity - cf. the entire article: "The
Knights Templar's Knowledge from Egypt - and Moses", by
Ove von Spaeth, writer, historian, independent
researcher, - (www.moses-egypt.net)
Holisticum teaching is not religious or advocating any specific religious
direction within the established religions or other alternative methods,
theories or ways of thinking.
The principles of
Holisticum teaching is: the basic values of the comprehensive view. The cosmic
principle - the road to all recognitions. Jacob Noerkov Friis says, "... Do not
look for the truth - it is already here - ". Key subjects: the centre of
the source. The movement of consciousness through experiences of
dimensions and frequencies. The world mirror opens up and becomes an integrated
part of us, and we can react to this which IS.
I just read your wonderfully well-written article on
- and the new millennium'' - at
Thirax.dk. A great well done
- how it is well written.
I swallow everything you
on Freud and Moses - Ove, you are a dazzling skilled writer. Useful that you
knew the anthropologist of incredible knowledge, Prince Peter. And the often
controversial editor-in-chief Victor Andreasen, I had even a good knowledge of
Your article on
the alchemists - it was extremely interesting reading, which can move me
from the garden and the sun, into the computer.
article on reincarnation, I discovered it and went on reading - again, from
here it sounds sincere thanks for the outcome. Your acquaintance with heraldic
expert Sven Tito Achen has been very useful, he was a great expert, who is still
regarded with really respect. A kind of also your private information presented
together with the subject has given me a much food for thought.
Personally, I have even
researched my own family tree, but has been met with deep contempt from the
so-called genealogists. But, unfortunately, I do not expect any change in
attitude because jealousy can also be seen often in the research, among
genealogists is the very widespread in "the circle of the so-called omniscient
people''. You know of similar experiences from the Carsten Niebuhr
Institute. I do not have had enough energy to tell the "genealogists" that my
name has never been Hans Bertelsen, and I permit them to finally write whatever
they want. Wicked degrading gossip could you not stop anyway, and I can just
say, ''against stupidity even gods fought in vain''.
Hans Anckarstjerna, journalist, -
firstname.lastname@example.org - (1.Jun.2008)
Dianna Padgett: Becoming Manifest Transformation, - A
Qabalistic and Egyptian Analysis of the Formula of Creation As found in Genesis
'V I AMR', or 'Becoming
Manifest Transformation', is the numeric-based translation of the first four
chapters of Genesis taken letter-by-letter. Moses employs the motif of the
seed-bearing plant, or the H'ShMIM, which has, within it, all the elements
necessary for the expression of the growth of reality out of potential, and the
directive 'Force of Will.'
It describes the very
simple, yet powerful, process of the active use of reception which initiates the
'Primum Mobil,' or 'First Movement.'
In these 4 chapters, the
'Tree of Life' is defined 3 times via the use of the phrase 'V I AMR,' which
define the Sephiroth. There is an analysis of the Sephiroth revealed in this
manner in the commentary, as well as an analysis of the letters and the way
Moses used them. Also in the commentary is a comparative analysis of Moses' text
and the Egyptian Creation Myth, which describes the way reality works. The
engine that runs reality is perception and the duality of the seer and the seen.
This duality is a reflection of the 'Not' and the 'Is,' in that the True Self (the Seer) is at home in the Not and perception creates the Is.
readers letter, 'Freud og Moses', April 1st,
2007 - references:
Freud, Moses, and the proto-religious picture
Freud-Moses project is fabulous. I have read your text with pleasure and
benefit, and I fully understand that it had to be published. It is eminent, and
you deal with something extremely exciting and fascinating - of interest to all
The subjects ARE very
important and the material of prime interest. Unique! Stimulation begins with
the first word, and your subject is fluid nitro-glycerine to the brain of an
inquisitive reader. Bravo. Your interdisciplinary comprehension is your mark and
your force. Personally, I am so infatuated with the proto-religious picture that
our lives are an inner dream of the Almighty!
Bjorn Andersen, MA and Adjunct lecturer in Literary
criticism and Linguistic science at Copenhagen University, Journalist DJF,
former Programme Editor at the Danish National Television - email@example.com -
hans.wyrdweb.eu, 1 May 2008 - on
Final Proof of the Theory of Freud concerning Moses
Constable Research BV - also
trying to decrypt the Codes of Ancient Civilizations. I am getting closer
and closer to the Essentials. To find the code I have to move from
civilization to civilization and compare their Myths and Symbols.
Search How Akhenaton started the Age of Aquarius at the Wrong Moment and
created the Jewish Religion by Accident
Akhenaton (1300 BC),
married to the beautiful Nefertiti, reformed the state religion of Egypt in a
very rigorous way. In that time the main deity was named Amen. Out of the blue
Amenhotep adopted an old deity called Aten and changed everything.
He not only changed his
name (his old name was Amenhotep IV) but he also erased Amen from all the
inscriptions of the capital Thebes and built a new capital to the north of
Thebes called Akhetaten, the place where Aten rises.
The powerful priests of
Amen (or Ammon) did not like this move and revolted. The priests of Aten were
expelled of Egypt and fled to Palestine. The leader of this expedition was one
of the high priests of Ahktnaton called Ra-Mose. The mother of Ahkhnaton was
Tiye. She was the daughter of the Chief Minister of his Father, Yuga.
In 1939 Sigmund Freud
published a book called "Moses and Monotheism". In this book Freud argues
that Moses was the High Priest of Akhenaten. Yuga, the father of his wife is the
Jewish patriarch Joseph and his high priest Ra-Mose is the Moses of the Old
In Moses and Monotheism,
Freud claims that Ra-Moses only led his close followers into freedom and that
they subsequently killed Moses in a rebellion. Freud explains that years after
the murder of Moses, the rebels formed a religion which promoted Moses as the
Saviour of the Israelites. This religion was a mixture of the worship of Aten
and Zoroaster (Mithras). Maitreya is the Hindu-variant of Mithras:
The Final Proof of the Theory of Freud. http://www.moses-egypt.net/book-series/debat-continuing-c_en.asp
Johannes Fabricius, Dr.med et Phil., Professor Ph.D. at
Blaagaard National College for Teachers, Copenhagen - (25.Nov.2008)
Reader's mail, 15 December 2007 -
Provides a new way of looking at things
It is a very good work you have created about "Freud and Moses - and another
view of history". I have read it through and find many interesting topics,
including on Dalai Lama and Prince Peter, the ethnographer. But there are much
more which I could point out.
It is my strong
impression that these texts are genuine research and that you totally are
in command of the matters when you are writing. You write in a special manner
which in a sense is of the old ideal, yet contemporary, I do not know exactly
how I should express it. You use a special technique and providing a new way of
looking at things. At the same time it is genuine fine research also with such
an extremely richness of sources and references, and he is in total
control of the matters when he writes. It is unique.
New circumstances might
suggest that the next step is that in research there will be involved more of
the spiritual side. It is here, there, and everywhere in your writings, but
there are perspectives that something more comprising will come up at a
Moses is not a myth.
Moses was obviously a man who has lived and has formed a new religion through
which humanity was to develop new human sides. Yes, great knowledge of Moses is
found in your texts, and great skills in both writing and research are very much
present, and delivery of results is always carried out substantially. Here you
may indeed be a happy soul. Good luck with this unique work.
24 August 2009
- discussion :
Interested in an other view of Moses
Graham Hancock - Phorum - Mysteries
>>iroquois warrior wrote: I believe that the spiritual and
historical accounts or storytelling were not divided in Egypt and therefore
to be "victorious" in a story or account is also a religious story. Bull
worship/cow worship was indicative of the age of Taurus - so to include the
pyramids (perhaps unfinished at the time??) is relative to both the
visual/religious significance of both the pyramid and the gods themselves.
It tells a story as a point in time.
As for Moses-I, like
Sigmund Freud and other earlier scholars (and some new writers on the
subject) believe him to actually be the expelled follower of Akhenaten.
Research data and documentation, the Zenith Project
- Jan. 2000 - debate on history:
A Biblical research which rejected Moses
By OVE VON SPAETH
Academic Theories Contra Historical Reality
Many researchers believe that biblical texts cannot be used as source material
for historical purposes. However, the problem more likely stems from
insufficient historical knowledge.
It was fatal to the study
of the Bible's specific information about Moses that, especially in
philological research, academic hypotheses as to how the biblical texts were
created, were developed prior to scientific archaeological excavations,
analyses, and conclusive findings. As a consequence this unfortunate
starting point led in an increasingly mistaken direction. (All this is
further elaborated on in a 'The 70-Item Catalogue on Biblical Research' - in
my book, "The Secret Religion", pp. 310-340).
Around the late 1800's,
theological researchers and historians began experimenting by making
"models" and reconstructing a creation and development of the texts - and to
when their formation might have taken place. But it was derived from
hypotheses and assumptions mainly based on textual material alone. This -
rarely recognized - one-sidedness naturally made sufficiently critical and
qualified judgment of the then-available data almost impossible. The problem
is that this background was forgotten little by little and many ideas from
these provisional models almost became assumed as "the truth".
Research Rested Too Long
It was claimed by the German theologian, Orientalist, and Semitic scholar,
Julius Wellhausen (1844-1918) that the biblical texts had been subjected to
alterations or had been adapted and, in particular, pieced together from old
For more than hundred years an extreme version of Wellhausen's hypothesis on such alleged
text division - later represented as the Berlin School or the German School
- continued to have quite a dominating influence on many researchers'
and non-researchers' perception of the texts. In various ways it still
influences much biblical information in encyclopaedias and literature -
for instance, a claim that the Bible contained six Books of the Pentateuch,
established by including the Book of Joshua, became also a fashionable
"truth" for many years.
This German School's
increasingly complex method of classifying the biblical texts, the so-called
"documentary'"theory, is based on, among other things, the idea that
because that double names and descriptions of the Israelite god appear in
the texts as well as double versions of events, territories, and laws, these
texts must necessarily stem from different sources. As this seemed very
convincing viewed from that angle, the problem was that much of the biblical
research on such points found repose to some degree through the succeeding
Egyptian Background of the Name 'Moses'
For instance, Sigmund Freud had exposed the theologians' and historians'
refraining from taking it into more serious consideration that 'Moses' was
an Egyptian name. It should even be added that the hitherto widespread
interpretation of the words in the biblical text where the name Moses is
claimed to have been a Hebrew play on words strangely enough implies that
Pharaoh's Daughter mastered the Hebrew language - even to the extent of
being able to make puns in this foreign language.
In Hebrew, Moses is
called Moshe, which according to the biblical text of the Book of
Exodus (2:10) is, word for word, understood to play on the assumption that
Pharaoh's Daughter named him thus, "because she had drawn him out of the
Egyptologists and historians specializing in Egypt, e.g. James Henry
Breasted, Alan H. Gardiner, and Eduard Meyer have confirmed at an early
stage that the name Moses was not Hebrew but stems from Egyptian usage.
In addition, the
"Jüdisches Lexikon" ('Hebrew Dictionary', the Herlitz & Kirschner's
editions) says on the subject "Moses as a name" that the biblical influenced
explanation concerning the claimed Hebrew name Moshe (Moses) should
mean 'he who is being drawn out of the water' is a misunderstanding:
"... it is completely impossible to harmonize the active form of the Hebrew
word - as Moshe (Moses) can only mean 'he who draws out'. ..."
The Hebrew play on words
in the Bible has been created from meshitihua, meaning 'he draws out'
- where consequently the word "he" cannot indicate that Pharaoh's Daughter
drew him out of the water.
Thus, the Hebrew biblical
text includes an impossible play on words on the name Moses, all of which
means that this cannot have been the idea of the original narrative. The
situation indicates that Pharaoh's Daughter had ceremonially given the boy
the same pharaoh-name as that of her father, and later of her husband, and
also her nephew (and his son). All were/became pharaohs - i.e. Tuth-mosis,
of which this purely Egyptian name Moses (mosis) is the last part.
This abbreviated form -
which was common usage in Egypt - was thus consistently based on the names
of a number of pharaohs all bearing this sovereign name at that time.
Egyptian Source Documentation on Moses
Many researchers adopted the attitude that Abraham and Moses are pure
fiction, and that the exodus never took place - and most of the Bible consists
of fictional, national-ideological narratives set in a 'patchwork' of
religious backgrounds; everything invented by the Jewish priests ca. 300 BC.
But what is totally
ignored is that the Tell el-Amarna letters of the archives (found in 1887)
of the pharaohs Amenhotep III and Akhenaton state that the city princes and
governors in Canaan - at that time dominated by Egypt - for a period of some
20 years asked Egypt for help against the intruding Apiru people,
i.e. the Hebrews: the number of years is in accordance with the
Bible's precise description stating that the invasion took place over a
period of 21 years.
probable time of the Hebrew-Israelite invasion has also been rejected,
however on an insufficient basis. This is also the case regarding the
archaeological excavations of Jericho having reveiled the collapse of the
city walls (with evident traces of an earthquake), dating ca. 1415 BC - all
exactly as in the biblical narrative, which also mentions the house of Rahab
on top of the wall, and a burning down of the city, and the prior looting of
all metal objects (the Book of Joshua, 6:19 and 6:24). The archaeologists did
really find houses upon the wall and remains of actual fires arranged to
burn down the city, together with the fact that precisely this city only
(specific layer, also with finds of seals with names of contemporary
Pharaoh Amenhotep III) - among all the many ancient Jerichoes built on top
of each other - was totally robbed of all kinds of metal.
Egyptian Gods - and the Bible
Furthermore, the otherwise obvious consequences have not been taken
notice of, concerning the many genuine Egyptian names in Moses' circles.
Besides his own name Moses, 'child', also to be seen are e.g.
Jethro, 'the River Nile', - Miriam, 'loved by Amun', - Aaron,
'great is the name' (i.e. of Osiris), - Aaron's son El-eazer,
'Osiris-god' (el, 'god', is a Semitic addition), - Aaron's successor
and grandson Phinehas, 'Negro', 'Ethiopian', - Merari,'greatly
loved', - Hopni, 'river(god-name)'. Also a word for 'truth' in
Hebrew, emeth, is the name of the Egyptian goddess for truth, Maat,
- and numerous other examples of Egyptian origin exist.
Moses was the
first known founder of a religion. This later world religion demands, "You
shall not have other gods". And yet so many in
the groups close to Moses had Egyptian names connected with Egyptian gods.
Besides what the
Bible mentions about Yahweh in connection with the moon - as by Yahweh's
full moon festival (i.e. Easter) and Mount Sinai (East-Semitic for
'Moon' Mountain) - the name Yahweh sounds identical to the Egyptians' name
for the Moon and the moon god.
When Egyptian queens,
especially in the 18th dynasty, were initiated as the "god's wife", this was
often manifested by the fact, the several of the royal successors and their
queens were given names with the prefix Yah, i.e. the Egyptian name
for the 'Moon' or the 'moon god' is pronounced Yahu, Iao, or Yahw.
Cf. "Jah/Ah" in Erman & Grapow's "Wörterbuch der Aegyptischen Sprache" (Band
1, 1925, p. 42).
It is included in the
names of at least five of Queen Hatshepsut's nearest royal ancestors, for
example Yamesis, i.e. 'child of the Moon', and Yahhotpe, i.e.
'the Moon's joy' known respectively as Ahmose and Ahotep in later attempts
at reproducing the names).
Thus the name for the
Egyptians' Moon and the moon god Yah or Yhw looks as almost
identical with the pronunciation of the name of the Israelite god Yahweh,
which in Hebrew, e.g. in Exodus (17:16), is often spelled Yah.
By the Egyptians the Moon
and moon god was called Yah, while in Hebrew the Moon is among other
things called Yareah or Yareach. The name's last part is
Hebrew arach, 'the walker' - and the first part is still Yah:Yahweh.
Egyptian Language in the Bible
Of the overwhelming number of examples of the authenticity problems
concerning the academic researchers' hypotheses, a few are mentioned here: 1. Although
the Bible has 3-4 Hebrew words for 'linen/cotton' (e.g. bad, peshet, and
sadin) the Egyptian word shesh (shesn) is used 38 times, of which
34 passages with this word are in the Pentateuch, but is nevertheless claimed to
belong to a so-called late priest-source ("P-source"). But why should the
priests avoid the words of their own Hebrew biblical language as if they were
Egyptological linguistic historians? 2. The
designation pharaoh (per-ao, 'the great house') was only used in
Egypt for 'king' at the time of Moses and until 900 BC, when the usage was
reduced to only being included in the ceremonial titles of the king. However, if
the Pentateuch was only written one thousand years after the event, which Jewish
readers could then be expected to be able to understand this obsolete Egyptian
word? 3. Why
should anyone invent a mythical figure, Moses, for these Jews of later times -
and with this purely Egyptian name? 4. According to many scholars,
these Jews of later times in Israel mostly spoke Aramaic. Why then were the
books of the Pentateuch written in ancient Hebrew which in daily use
apparently was severely declining after 600 BC? 5. How can the Samaritans' Bible
hold an almost identical text about Moses - written in even older writing
than that of the Jewish Bible in the version from Babylonian times ca. 400
BC - if the Jewish priests, who were often the competitors (even sometimes
enemies) of the Samaritans, only "invented" the Bible in 400-200 BC?
Therefore, researchers have also had to claim that the Samaritan Bible is a
very late construction. 6. The idea
about one (creator) god is documented in Egypt - around 1450 BC for instance (at
the time of Moses) - and much earlier too, i.e. not invented by Jewish priests
in 300 BC. 7. In the
Pentateuch the pact/treaty with Yahweh was formulated in a way which was typical of
treaties in 1400 BC of the Middle East, for instance also by the Hittites. -
And: 8. Censuses
mentioned in the Pentateuch are based directly on the Egyptian pattern of the
same period: both conditions unlikely to be created a thousand years later.
- So, at a distance of
several thousand years, it is thus claimed by some influential schools of
research that they know more about the texts than the writers who once wrote
A 'knowledge filter' making the Egyptian Factor invisible
The Bible does not identify itself as a being historically-critical account, but
may yet be a real source. On many occasions the theologians' research has only
rarely been able to analyse archaeology and history in a sufficiently
professional way. For instance, they have firmly maintained that double names
and descriptions - like Yahweh/El, Jacob/Israel and double reproductions of
events, territories, and law texts - should prove that quite many sources have been
incorporated into one.
If only the researchers
in question had known that double forms were common and appreciated already in
the oldest texts of the Middle East in names, references of events, and in songs
- as proved e.g. by Lévi-Strauss, the structuralist: in Babylonia and Egypt and
among the Hittites the names of kings and gods are very often seen in double forms.
contradicted by many new findings and discoveries, it is still often being
claimed that the Bible should only be seen as a purely literary poem or work of
fiction. But many times in the Pentateuch it is clearly stated that Moses himself
is the writer. The assumed later alterations and additions do not necessarily
deprive Moses of this authorship of the basic texts. But many researchers have
considered text alterations and possible modifications of older expressions as
confirmation that the entire text stemmed from the much later times of
the modernized expressions.
As for historical
plausibility of the oldest parts of the Bible, i.e. the Pentateuch, biblical
research has generally neglected the fact that these texts can give
specific information about individuals, times and sites - i.e.
exactly as required for legal evidence in court - contrary to legends
and folk-tales, where these factors are unclear. Researchers who at an early
stage were on a better track, which for instance was in better agreement
with archaeology, can still be seen rejected with the non-argument that
"they are obsolete".
The Rabbinical Writings -
with their vast, ancient collection of biblically related texts of which the
oldest parts are of the same age as the oldest parts the Bible - are an
absolute necessity for the understanding of so many, also Egyptian
circumstances referred to in the Bible, all of which is often ignored by
researchers of the Bible and of history as well.
Offshoots of the German
School - also in an Anglo-Saxon and Scandinavian framework, as for instance
the so-called "the Copenhagen School" which deprives Moses of all historical
identity - have omitted to observe the Egyptian factor although it is
among the most important elements in the understanding of many claimed
textual discrepancies. A "knowledge filter" has been created that
automatically filters everything out which is not in accordance with
prevailing theories; but down-to-earth critics would call it 'killing
But the huge material
published in the book-series "Assassinating Moses" - in contrast to the orthodox
research's more extreme view with a non-historical Moses - has factually all the
way through been able clearly to demonstrate Moses' intimate connection with
especially the Egyptian universe.
Ove von Spaeth, writer, researcher, - A brief survey
concerning archaeological and textual source traces on Moses; - with
texts and data from this
author's book-series, "Assassinating
Moses", - documentation published via Zenith IC Project - (Jan.2000)
Most comprehensive religious-cultural
research ever in its genre
"... Regarding Ove von Spaeth's book-series about the historical Moses and
Egypt: it comprises 25 years of concentrated research and the results -
released through 5 unique works and in addition a special dissertation, the
pioneering work on dating the world's oldest star map (Egyptian). In all, it
the most ambitious undertaking of research in the genre of
religious-cultural and historical studies... it is also the most
comprehensive interdisciplinary science project in this field carried out by
a single individual. …"
wikipedia.org, wiki "on Moses" - 4 August
2009 - preliminary text:
Maybe from Ove von Spaeth's analysis of Egyptian star maps from 1534 BCE, at
the website of MOSES *
EGYPT * SPAETH, go to: Google on "Ove von Spaeth", 1080 hits for the
dbl blip delimited (") Ove von Spaeth, which indicates some genre-related
Actually I don't know
von Spaeth is scientific or pseudo-scientific, maybe someone know more about
this guy, and so can estimate whether his theories are mentionable or not...
I believe the Hebrews
weren't in Egypt at the time referred to in the Moses-myth. However it might
occur that Hyksos were at decline and that this Mes-ses guy was forced to leave
together with the Semites around Hyksos, ... said: Rursus (mbork²)
13:59, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Section 5 for a sketch of
the story involving Hatshepsut as the real mother of
I'm not sure that the Hyksos are involved in that drama, ... said: Rursus
(mbork³) 14:47, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Eeh, uuh! Forget about
Hyksos in this context. Ove von Spaeth claims that Moses was Senmut, son of
Hatshepsut, probably son of Iteru/Jethro at the pharaoh court, but outmanouvered
by his cousin Thutmose III who got the support of the priests, while Moses was
symbolically executed and forced into exile at the Sinai peninsula. But Moses
reappeared repeatedly, using Hebrew guest workers as his allies. He founded,
according to von Spaeth, 'Judaeism', syncretically using this-and-that concept
in an Egyptian mystical framework. He probably also, according to von Spaeth,
invented the Protosinaitic script. Good and pretty uncontroversial story, but
impossible to evaluate without the books and their sources available,... said:
Readers opinion - 23 Februar 2008 -
commented analysis :
He has found a new method of carrying out the research
For a number of years and with great interest I have kept myself posted
regarding the author and researcher Ove von Spaeth's published works and
articles on his often unconventional discoveries in the historical and
astronomical field. Over the same period I have also observed a great enthusiasm
justified - as well as a sometimes regular black-hearted attitude by some
academic circles. Thus, a productive research which has been able to mark its
value far beyond just temporal trends but currently ahead of time.
To inform the increasing
amount of readers, I think it is time to present, as seen from my own academic
experience basis with literature study and also archeology and astronomy, a few
impressions of Ove von Spaeth authorship of which the following two factors can stand
as the most prominent: 1) the exceptional result of his
research - and 2) his very unbiased way or process by which
it is being unfold.
Working on his historical research project
the writer frequently had to cross traditional demarcations of the research areas
but simultaneously carried it out
in the old-fashioned systematic and analytic way with thorough examination of all
details. Without Ove von Spaeth's necessary research on innumerable sources and
often ignored findings we, today, would lose many major connections to
information in the past.
To every reader it is
greatly beneficial that the writer's publications are currently borne along with
a disclosing documentation. His books and texts contain many unique insights
which could not possibly have been presented at an earlier stage. His
publications are currently borne along with a
disclosing documentation. His books and texts contain many unique insights which
could not possibly have been presented at an earlier stage.
Not least, his historical
book-series "Assassinating Moses" is described by specialists as being breaking new ground,
but when it took place that his new findings have come across other researchers' hitherto beliefs
and these people could not attack his thorough documentation, it happened that
they have instead turned towards the way of its presentation. This is factually
the wrong way of dealing with it as we can see just by reading the various
quotes, below the next lines.
However, informative historical data can exist as hidden in ancient traditional accounts
of the Rabbinical Writings from Antiquity or inlayed in "myths", - therefore, as a commencement the
project deals without bias here with narratives from the times and areas in question
thus considering them as relatively true, as long as they have not been
counter-proved or may appear absurd - all, of course, on a basis of assessing
the origin and chronology of the presented sources. Naturally, such starting
point only in a successful and recognized practice was especially used by the
greatest authorities of Middle Eastern archaeology as W.F. Albright,
Cyrus Gordon, Yigael Yadin, and others.
- - -
The particular style,
approach, and objectives of Ove von Spaeth's research can be illustrated as
perceived by experienced researchers:
- Jens-André P. Herbener,
M.A. in Comparative Religion and Semitic Philology, and Project leader of the New
Scholarly Translation into Danish of the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament), has
stated that "... Ove von Spaeth has invented a new method of carrying out the research ...". Also, Herbener wrote in his introduction to Ove von
Spaeth's volume 1 of the Moses-series:
"... The author's fluently rapid style should be emphasized, too. He has a rare aptitude for passing on an extremely complex and sometimes not very
accessible subject matter in a vivid yet logically structured and easily
understood manner. - Forming a sharp contrast
to the short-sighted academics of modernity, finding in ancient literature
merely words, Ove von Spaeth finds its imposing spirit, too. In other words one
feels enriched as a human being, not just intellectually enlightened, when he
with unusual insight and understanding explains the religious rationale behind
innumerable phenomena of history as well as present time.
- - -
experts and executive researchers illustrate variously the author's style and method
"... these texts are impressive genuine research - Ove von Spaeth write in a special manner
which in a sense is of the old ideal, yet contemporary, I do not know exactly
how I should express it. Ove von Spaeth uses a special technique and providing a new way of
looking at things. At the same time it is genuine fine research also with such
an extremely richness of sources and references, and he is in total
control of the matters when he writes. It is unique.
New circumstances might
suggest that the next step is that in research there will be involved more of
the spiritual side. It is here, there, and everywhere in your writings, but
there are perspectives that something more comprising will come up at a certain
time ...", - according to Merete Gundersen,
Writer, Lecturer, and Publisher.
- - -
"... The Project description presenting the structure
and goals of the entire huge project I find extremely successful, - elements and
arguments refreshingly clearly presented, in fact the points are very concretely
defined. As regards stylistic and structural implementing it is absolutely among
some of the very best. ... His texts and articles are are so exciting, it is
tempting all the time going on to read also the next line ...", - according
toL. Steen Larsen, Ph.D. in History of Religions, Associate Professor at
the University of Lund, Sweden, Department of History and Anthropology of
- - -
"… super-interdisciplinary - unbelievably thorough studies. Ove von Spaeth has succeeded in presenting the
results in a language and a style accessible to the man in the street. Top marks
for its mediation qualities! …", - according to Ejgil Soeholm, Master of Literature Science, Chief Research Librarian,
- - -
have especially liked these features:
- your exciting reading written for me and everybody, served in a way so that
everything goes down voluntarily, if only the eyes and the fingers can keep the
pace, and - that you weave in the sources in the text in an easily readable way
- far better than a source summary ...", - according toH. Asbjorn Christensen, Brabrand.
- - -
"... in his books
on Moses, I can observe at least three layers - one layer for general
orientating reading - another for readers with particular interest - and a
third one for a deeper understanding of knowledge, and perhaps additional
perspectives. It felt like a major feature, even deliberately done ...",
- according to Ulla Runchel, Writer, Researcher of future, -
Rancho de la Luz, Mijas, Spain.
- - -
"... the books about Moses, truly a revolutionary work. - A stringent,
disciplined work - and it reads like an exciting novel; an epoch-making
interpretation! ...", - according to Jes P. Asmussen, Ph.D. et Theology, Professor, at the Carsten Niebuhr
Department of Near Eastern Studies, University of Copenhagen.
- - -
"... As it is apparently
not uncommon among many other readers of the Moses book-series, I also read
these works several times, not least because I have discovered that each new
view further gives considerable information and understanding. I am breathless
over its meticulous research and the logical and startling conclusions. - Truly
overwhelming because the books are bulging of exciting stories, a plethora of
interesting material. I am thrilled infinitely much, because of the content and
also for a talent of a storyteller far beyond the ordinary. I am simply deeply
impressed ...", - according to Erik Ansvang, Writer, Lecturer,
Course Instructor, Guide for Egypt-touring.
- - -
"... An excellent
exciting insight. I freely admit that I even have read it all through several
times. It was a thoroughly sound experience. I just sit back with an incredible
sense of a truly fascinating text - a pure pleasure to read ...", - according to
Jens Jorgensen, MA Historian, Author, former Headmaster.
- - -
Here, the important
statement from Ove von Spaeth should be included, concerning that
he do not claim that his theories for his discoveries are finally proven, but he
"... places many finds for the first time in a wider context and also presents a
long string of valuable clues and indications; these may be considered a
"special offer" to further research ..."
- - -
Finally the undersigned
wish to present my own quote on the author's approach:
"... In his intense and comprehensive studies of star knowledge in Ancient
Egypt, Mr. Ove von Spaeth has succeeded in wringing out so far unknown
information of the oldest star map of the world. - And last but not least: in
addition to his meticulous research and his ability to understand events and
religious life of ancient times, Mr. Ove von Spaeth is a marvellous narrator. He makes us turn things upside down once again. And we really need that! ..."
Bjorn Andersen, MA in literature and linguistics, Adjunct lecturer at the Copenhagen University, Writer, Journalist DJF, and former
Programme Editor at the Danish Broadcast and National Television
17 08 2009
- Turkish blog:
Musa, - Misir
Münevver Düşmanı, Seviyesiz Blog
"Tarihte Osman Gazi hakkında bildiklerimiz gerçekten çok az. Belirsizlikler,
adının "Osman" olmasından başlıyor. "Ataman" olma ihtimali ciddiyetle
tartışıldı. Ama gerçek tarihçilerin tartıştığı bu konular, neyse ki, kitlelere
ulaşmıyor. Her şeyi ispat eden sinir bozucu bir tarihçi yüzünden tarihi
"Atamanoğlu İmparatorluğu" diye yeni baştan yazmak zorunda kaldığımızı bir hayal
edin. Ama "Osman" adını kendi torunları da yadırgamadığına göre tasası bize
düşmedi."¹ - Belge, Murat, 2008, "Genesis: "Büyük Ulusal Anlatı" ve Türklerin Kökeni". İstanbul: İletişim Yayınları, s.87
......Mısır kaynaklarında Batılı tarihçilerin istediği bulguları Musa'nın
hikayesini doğrulayacak ipuçları vermeye başlamıştır..
(...'some western historians have found some concrete information
(confirming hints) from Egyptian sources concerning history of Moses was
- tabi bu spekülatif bir konu olmaya devam edecektir. Fakat yukardaki linler
tarihl ilgilenenler için oldukça ilgi çekici olabilir. (...'this
subject will continue to speculative. But you can use the link which could
be very interesting for those people who are related with history study'...)
Azgın Demokrat, - (16:44:14) : 17 08 2009
knights templar pictures -
autumn 2008 - info archives:
Knights templar interest
Back photo gallery - Compatibility with
Christianity, the anti-Masonic party, Freemasonry & the Knights Templar.
Almost few years after the pope burned their leader at the stake, the knights
templar are back or are they? - asks journalist Patrick Barkham in The Guardian,
March 19 2008 (www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/19/religion).
Knights templar, medieval
knights who defended crusader states and the holy land pilgrimage. Well-equipped
and trained templar knights became one of the most formidable fighting forces.
The combination of a castle and a convent, used by the knights
templar in the building of the castles also appeared at many more
places around Southern Europe.
This page lists
www.theknightstemplar.info links to knights templar web sites - unfortunately there are no
pictures on this site blogs and articles on the anniversary of the knights
templar arrest in Paris. Knights templar books
templar art, pictures the templar legacy, conspiracy, secret societies materials
from this knights templar website may not be copied.
The knights templar and
the DaVinci code - websites feature pictures of Rosslyn Chapel and much more on
the fabled crusaders and their origins of the knights templar. Still more on
medieval weapons - including pictures and explanations of the shields with the
design of the knights templar cross.
They were also involved
with the holy grail. Many public domain pictures of medieval knights jousting
Arthur and the knights of the round table. After years the once-noble knights
templar are enjoying a revival.
More on the web - the
templar and their
knowledge from Egypt and Moses, by Ove von
Spaeth. - Also, Vatican archives reveals secrets of the knights templar;
the Vatican's reproducing copies of the day chaplain latest news of archive
listings pictures. Notice the Temple Church in London - the church built by the
knights templar, the order of crusading monks founded to protect pilgrims on
their way to and from Jerusalem.
Knights Templar - Tempelherrerne - en historisk
ridderorden og dens historie
Knights Templar - Tempelherrerne - en historisk ridderorden og dens historie:
En webside til inspiration for den der vil vide mere om Templets Riddere og
historien om korstogene.
Formålet med denne
webside er at skildre det historiske stof om Tempelherrernes virke så objektivt
Dette website vil ikke
beskæftige sig med det stærkt sensationsprægede stof, der i de senere år har
haft en tendens til at skabe helt nye og endnu mere fantastiske myter om
Tempelherrerne, idet størstedelen af dette blot er udsprunget af en for livlig
fantasi og trang til at skabe sensation og tjene penge på det.
Det er af allerstørste
vigtighed her at fastslå, at den historiske Tempelridderorden var grundfæstet i
kristendommen, og at alle nyoprettede tempelridderordener intet har at gøre med
den oprindelige Orden. - Venlig hilsen Sten Schæbel Rønnov
WebMii 2011 - 2011
- reference :
Exciting research carried out by Ove von Spaeth
WebMii 2011: WebMii is a people search mash up that centralizes public
information from other websites. - All searches on WebMii generate automatically
and dynamically a result page.
WebMii 2011: For each
search, WebMii shows the source of the presented information. We hope that this
service will allow you to better know and control the display of information
about yourself on the web.
An extremely eminent and very, very exciting insight is to be found in Ove von
Spaeth's Freud and Moses - and the historical part of it is in complete
accordance with what I know about Egypt. This year I have taught two classes and
given considerable importance to ancient Egyptian history, and the opportunity
of reviving some of the previously read material supplemented with a lot of new
material was of benefit to me.
information about the word Pharaoh. In some of "my" history works I learn that
"Pharaoh" means "the double house" and is thus referring to the fact that Egypt
consists of a northern and a southern part - and that the pharaonic headgear is
a combination of two different symbols, i.e. North and South.
As to contents: my
goodness, this is exciting reading material. Until I read this text, I did not
know about Ove von Spaeth's contact with the Greek-Danish Prince Peter, the
anthropologist, who - 'less easy' for our enjoyment of his presence in Denmark -
was more active abroad, so this fact was very interesting. Also interesting was
the reading about Ove von Spaeth's Moses-series with the volume one's previous
mentioning of Freud, and the great newspaper editor-in-chief Viktor Andreasen's
reaction to this, "Grumpy Viktor", as was his nick name. The remarks about
Thomas Mann are important to me; up till last year I taught German and in fact
this work included a lot about Thomas Mann, by whom I have been inspired in many
may often be useful, but in this case it is very uncomfortable to have to react
critically to such a magnificent work. So I looked into some of the used
sources, and here was Josephus.
In fact, as a tutor I
have recently studied a very interesting student's treatise about Josephus'
"book" 5 and 6. The student and I, as the guide, had worked quite a lot on what
concerns the value of Josephus based on a perspective of criticism of the
sources. And for one thing, his pro-Roman information should be accepted with a
grain of salt. On the other hand he is a very important prime source in many
When using elements from
Josephus - in the way it has been done in Ove von Spaeth's text - where it
cannot be claimed at all that information has been influenced by a pro-Roman
attitude (as we know he moved to Rome and wrote with imperial support) -
Josephus' information appears so much more clear as important and essential.
This is a wonderful
presentation. I even admit honestly that I have read it many times. It was a
penetratingly good experience. I was left with an incredibly good feeling of a
very exciting paper. The pleasure of the contents make me say: it was truly
wonderful reading - in short: fabulous information. Great text.
Jens Jørgensen, MA Historian, Writer, former Headmaster, -
City Council of Slagelse - - jens@slagelse.... - (13.Dec.2007)
alexa.com, - The Web Information Company -
http://www.alexa.com/browse?&CategoryID=964803 - (Oct.2007)
Ove von Spaeth's Moses-series in
dokumentarical drama, March 2008, - inspiration:
The Principal Character Inspired by Ove von Spaeth's
Only a few centuries ago - and as far back as all previous societies -
knowledge was achieved through cultic initiation by making a promise on silence.
Knowledge was reserved for the initiated.
The key word is secret
knowledge ... Doctors, philosophers, architects, scientists - all had taken an
oath of silence - thus following an ancient tradition. Because this is how it
was also in ancient Greece, in the Pythagorean society, and in ancient Egypt for instance. In fact this is how it has always been. Therefore - and exactly
therefore - do we know so little about the actual knowledge and doing of our
Although often set
aside, this knowledge about essential circumstances behind our civilization has nevertheless not disappeared from this world - and is thus an obvious task for a
historian to disclose.
In a new documentary
detective novel by Erling Haagensen, "Murder
of the Word" (Documentas Publishers, 2008), the principal character, i.e. a
female historian in research of the knights templar in Jerusalem, makes an extended trip and goes to Egypt in order to investigate some original traces.
This because of her inspiration by reading
Spaeth's book-series about the enigmatic Moses, who among other things
possessed a special knowledge from high initiations in mysteries of ancient
http://www.merling.dk, - "Secret Knowledge",
website of Erling Haagensen, writer and film director - (March,2008)
Erling Haagensen has also
issued "The Treasure of the Knights Templar" and
"The Round Churches of
Bornholm"; – and, together with Henry Lincoln: "The Templars' Secret Island"
- the magnificent story which has created the background for the Da Vincy
Erling Haagensen is co-founder of New Science Limited - with its purpose of
supporting fundamental scientific research by cutting across disciplinary
boundaries - to contribute to a necessary scientific re-examination of
existing paradigms, thus including aiming to enhance the common knowledge
and the educational level of society, cf. http://www.new-science.co.uk
e-mail opinion - 30 November 2008
Stimulating and informative - on Freud and Moses
article on Freud and Moses earlier today when I found it on your web. It is
extremely well written. - Yes, it is generally accepted that especially older
anthropology contributed much with the elements in the comparative religion
research. Some of the latest anthropology has a tendency to dismiss the general
theories, namely parts of the comparative research, and emphasizes more that
everything must be understood on the local basis. Others are reflective, i.e.
how the anthropologist affects the matter which he is studying. And there are still
Your article is very
intriguing, and in which ever way you do it you are brilliant to keep the reader
up to the mark. Although there will, unavoidably, be
some objections to the contents, you surely have a capacity to present the
subject matter so that it really fascinates. There is, so to speak, a hidden
crime writer in you. Your web edition I found stimulating and informative to the
effect of feeling the
urge to read more.
L. Steen Larsen, Ph.D. in History of Religions,
Associate Professor at the University of Lund,
Sweden, - Department of History and Anthropology of Religions,
http://www.lu.se/lund-university - (29.Nov.2008)
happystarlight, Ulla Runchel, - December 2005
Time is energy - which is constant
Time is energy - which is constant.
Time works for all of us
- we know this as a nice phrase, but in reality is it our own process of
age, which develops our conduct and the patterns we develop. Then time is
latent present without movement. It is the All, which moves - together with
you and your thoughts in the now, constantly.
This is the eternal life
being transformed outside time in a quiet, floating stream, which is
in an eternal transformation fusioned with your conscience. This conscience
of yours is then used as a guide when your thoughts receives the
conscience's streams of pictures and new info to the brain and yourself.
This, while yours cells vibrate in measure with the pulse of the universe,
and with the time as a non-moving spectator. Time is not movable - it is us, and the mass and materia,
being expanding the mass of the materia in vacuum.
Moses was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians
Moses. "The Bible tells us that Moses "was learned in all the
wisdom of the Egyptians, and was mighty in words and in deeds". In fact, he had
performed great deeds of merit and passed many tests in previous lifetimes His
soul was chosen for the mission because he had proven himself. Moses lived as an
Egyptian of princely rank until he was about forty years old ..."
Ananda. "In Moses' next embodiment, as Ananda during the sixth
century he became the disciple of Lord Gautama Buddha. Here, at the feet of' the
most advanced initiate on the planet, he learned how to render service in love
and to tap the peace and understanding that come from within the golden flame of
Lord Ling. "Following that embodiment, he lived in China as
Lord Ling, one of the ruling class whose high attunement with the Brotherhood
enabled him to serve his people through the balanced action of the threefold
- - - - When was Moses in Egypt? "The entity then was in that land
now known as Egyptian, during the period when the princess Hatshepsut (the
entity's mother) was in power; and the entity's name was Sidiptu, hence a sister
of that leader Moses, the law giver of Israel. ..."
http://www.visdomsnettet.dk - VisdomsNettet is a private
humanitarian and non-profit foundation. Its purpose is information via the
Internet in order to help promoting peace in the world and disseminate
spritual-scientific knowledge, studies - and peace inspiration.
Swedano Journal, June 2004 (3rd year, no. 6, pp. 55-57) -
By OVE VON SPAETH
Many of the ancient events in history can be seen rejected as
"untrustworthy" by some scholars. This is especially the case what concerns
the Moses part of the Bible.
enormous quantities of valuable information exist regarding ancient and
pre-ancient times and cultures. Therefore, on the basis of the many years of
accumulating finds and results from the many investigations an influential
group of researchers' extreme theorizing of the past appears directly as
A stele commemorating a conquered kitchen?
Research on the historical Moses and the conceptions from this are still
suffering - because of some dominating theories which for more than
hundred years - especially the span of 1870-1990's are depriving Moses of
all historical identity. By these influential scholarly ideas about the
biblical background the researchers most often have omitted to observe
the Egyptian factor although it is among the most important elements in
the understanding of many claimed text discrepancies. A "knowledge filter"
has been created that automatically filters everything out which is not in
accordance with prevailing theories; but critics would call it 'killing
Still at the beginning
of our new millennium many researchers reject the existence of King David
and claiming that the Jews invented David in order to have an imperial builder
like Alexander the Great (356-323 BC). However, this is a misleading, as
David did not created an empire, and because a victory monument made of basalt,
ca. 800 BC, was erected by the Arameans, the Syrian enemies of Israel, 150 years
after David's time.
The basalt stele is
inscribed 'King of Israel' and 'House of David', bjtdwd - an expression
appearing in the Bible about 25 times concerning David's dynasty ruling in Judea.
Nevertheless, many researchers' pet history-model was jeopardized, so they
preferred bjtdwd to mean 'boiler house' (kitchen) despite the
impossibility in the fact that a victory stele should present a
Also King Midas was
claimed to be a myth only. It is peculiar that Alexander the Great is indeed
historically recognized, but not his acquaintance with a historical legacy
regarding the wealthy King Midas and Midas' father, King Gordion, only 400 years
prior to Alexander's visit to their city, Gordion, although this visit is
documented. This is almost as if we refused to recognize the existence of King
Louis XIV, the roi soleil of France, only 400 years prior to our time, although
recognizing his Versailles.
In 1957 archaeologist
Rodney Young opened King Midas' grave mound, close to Yassihöyük in Turkey. Here
was the site of ancient Gordion. Whatever any modern theory will assume next
about the dating, it is a fact that the exact, scientific dating of the contents
- around 750 BC - is precisely in accordance with data of the so-called myths.
Even Buddha was called a
myth. The claim concerning being a myth was counter-proved in the 1890’s when
the Buddha's disappeared hometown, Kapilavastu, in notherne India was found by
German archaeologist in British service, the Pali- and Sanskrit-learned Dr.
Alois Anton Fuhrer. Fuhrer also in the same district found Buddha’s birthplace,
Lumbini, and here King Asoka's famous pillar and its affirmative Buddhist
Some of the greatest
archaeological findings in other places on earth have been found in exactly the
same way - via exact information in myths and legends many thousand years old.
Great archaeologists and
explorers have been able to disclose a number of claimed myths.
But in addition to rigid research-political interests, also
political-religious circumstances can be seen impending the
solution "myths" and claiming them to be non-historical. Such
problems are also known in many other historical archaeology
relations. One example is that genuine Israelite-Jewish ancient
findings belonging to the other side of the present Israeli
borders are often designated as "Syrian culture findings".
Conventional research on biblical Moses not unbiased
The hitherto fruitless search for traces of Moses in Egyptian history is often
due to the fact that customary knowledge and traditions about him are
mainly viewed as if the Bible was the only or most important source. Narratives
about Moses can also be found in the oldest of the texts which are jointly
designated the "Rabbinical Writings". The latter give often more personal
information about him - and were handed down as chronicles outside the Bible.
From the first part of
the 18th dynasty (around 1500 BC) - where historians find a strange and hidden
transfer of power from Hatshepsut to Tuthmosis III - potential traces of Moses'
Egyptian life should be recognized upon a new attitude to discovered sources.
The historical material itself makes it clear that point after point of the
biblical Moses narrative and its connected texts in the Rabbinical Writings prove
more plausible than hitherto considered possible.
In particular it is
striking when Rabbinical and ancient writers' information is being evaluated
together with finds and results from archaeology and Egyptology. In addition
astronomical dating based on e.g. ancient sources of celestial records demonstrates the exact
accordance with Jewish sources.
It would have a great
realistic value to point to a possible identity of the Moses figure. For many
and different reasons research of history, Egyptology, and theology have not
always been unbiased in the many attempts through times to trace Moses as a real
person in history. To point to a historically authentic Egyptian person as being
Moses is not at all unprecedented; well-known Egyptologists have tried -
suggestions with gaps in historical coherence and the use of non-consisting
Moses dating, however, the attempts compel respect.
The breach with
traditional way of perception by biblical related research was so successful
that some researchers at an early stage took myths seriously and made them
subject to close analyses. Anthropologists and others - e.g. also Freud and some
of his followers - were among the first to scientifically enlarge the view on
special circumstances of the contents of the oldest biblical texts. Whereas
other researchers maintaining the theory about the Bible as myths only, have not
yet solved the simple question: if the majority of the Bible about Moses is an
artificial invention only and without a certain probability, then the Mosaic
religion remains a huge mystery.
Egyptian Source Documentation on Moses
Many researchers adopted the attitude that Abraham and Moses are pure fiction,
the exodus never happened - and most of the Bible consists of fictional,
national-ideological narratives set in a "patchwork" of religious backgrounds;
everything invented by the priests ca. 300 BC.
Although also many
general inscriptions in stone exist, a physical source problem is the perishableness of
old papyrus writing material - only few manuscripts or parts of texts on papyrus
prior to ca. 1300 BC are preserved.
Although the Bible has
3-4 Hebrew words for 'linen/cotton' (e.g. bad, peshet, and sadin)
the Egyptian word shesh (shesn) is being used 38 times, of which
34 passages with this word are in the Pentateuch but is nevertheless claimed
to belong to a so-called late "P-source" (i.e. alleged having been written by
Hebrew priests 1000 years later than the Israelite exodus). But why should the clergy
(P-source) leave out the words of their own Hebrew biblical language and be
Egyptologic linguistic historians?
It is a historical fact
that early traces of "monotheism" (in fact monolatri), i.e. the idea of one
chosen (creating) god superior to other gods, was known in Egypt - for instance
in 1500-1400 BC, i.e. the time of Moses, but also known much earlier. According
to ancient writers he would present his own ideas about reforming the Egyptian
religion, so that the traditional clergy obviously had good reasons for
a protection against him.
However, 2,300 years ago
King Ptolemy II ordered all ancient books and documents from the libraries of
the temples all over Egypt to be collected in his new great library of
Alexandria - and here at that time, the historian and priest, Manetho, drew
information from these sources and wrote in Greek about Moses' riot and the
Thus, it is a fact that
at 280 BC original Egyptian documentation on Moses was still existing - so how
can so many of present-day's scholars and researchers claim that Moses never
existed but is an invention created in Israel or even Babylonia by Jewish
priests at the same time ca. 300 BC?
The Ptolemaic kings allowed
Jews to settle down in Egypt - and through ca. 300 years in the city of
Leontopolis they had their own temple of the Jerusalem model and a high priest.
And in Alexandria they lived in a fourth part, the Delta quarter, of the great
city - altogether a huge group of new Jewish inhabitants (and in addition many
Samaritan emigrants) to be behind King Ptolemy II's sponsoring a translation of the
Hebrew Bible into the Greek international language - the Septuaginta Bible.
Again, it was around 280
BC that this task was carried out in Alexandria. In the great library Manetho by
chance may even have worked almost side by side with the 72 translating Jewish
rabbis and scholars.
So, how can anybody claim
that the Bible is a late creation - and how could the concrete existing
Septuaginta Bible then have been translated from a Hebrew Bible which in the
claimed case barely existed yet?
Many academic schools of these directions of research claim persistently
that Moses with the exodus from Egypt is a myth - a claim in open conflict
with many ancient documents. It is a fact that the pharaoh now known as
Tuthmosis II is mentioned in ancient Jewish writings as "the stepfather of
Moses" and "the husband of Pharaoh's daughter". Also Artapanos, the
Egyptian-Jewish writer in Alexandria, ca. 150 BC, maintained this - as
quoted by ancient Church historian Eusebius who specifically states
("Evangelica Praeparatio, IX", 27, 433b-434b) that this particular pharaoh
(Tuthmosis II) was the oldest known case of a person suffering from
The mummy of Pharaoh
Tuthmosis II was found as late as in 1881, and his skin still showed signs
of an advanced stage of affliction resembling elephantiasis swellings - the
most violent case ever seen on any royal mummy. This means that these
specific data about Moses cannot have been invented, as they refer exactly
to a certain pharaoh and his time (ca. 1500 BC). In addition, it determines
a more correct time of Moses' historical existence.
historian Josephus, 2,000 years ago, had invaluable sources on the history of
the Jews, also because of Titus Caesar (Vespasian), the conqueror of Jerusalem,
gave Josephus scrolls that were taken from The Jerusalem Temple on its
destruction in 70 AD. Josephus had no problem with acknowledging the
authenticity of Manetho's texts but disagreed much with Manetho's Egyptian
view on Moses as a destructive rebellion - to Josephus he was a hero.
Among an Egyptian king's many daughters only bears the title "Pharaoh's
Daughter" - the crown princess. In the Bible, Moses is mentioned in terms as
'the Son of Pharaoh's Daughter'. This, his in fact royal Egyptian title, is
corresponding with that Manetho both calling him Moses and Osarsyph
- i.e. User-sif in late-Egyptian language meaning 'child of
Osiris', i.e. Horus, who was always identified with the crown prince of
findings in Israel of small bronze figures made out as Golden Calves are both
independently dated to 1400-1300 BC. This result has not been doubted by any
professional. The concrete findings confirm the plausibility of the biblical
narrative about the Golden Calf and the time-originality of the text, especially
as these findings have been made at the cities of Ashqelon and northern Dan,
It is worth noting that
it was exactly these two sites which in turns were inhabited by the Dan tribe,
who - according to the Bible ("The Book of Judges") - continued to have a Golden
Calf cult, now headed by a priest, a descendant of Moses! Many scholars claim
that the biblical texts were written very late, 400-300 BC, but it is simply
unlikely that anybody would "invent" a text with a prestige as bad as the
"Golden Calf cult".
The excavation of Jericho shows that the construction of the city wall
with houses on top of the wall is in accordance with the biblical ("The Book
of Joshua") description - for instance of the house of Rahab. When the Bible
mentions Joshua's order for removing all metal from the city, before he
burned it down, the traces of a well organized burning down the city are all
recognized together with fact that precisely this city (specific layer) only
- among a number of other Jerichos built on top of each other - was
completely robbed of all kinds of metal.
However, the dating of
the conquest of Jericho to be during the years of 1100 BC are still recognized
by many, although long ago it has been proved wrong by new and better
archaeology, for instance the thorough ceramic and chemical dating and in
addition the dating of the collapse of the city walls to be ca. 1400 BC. A most
important fact: this is in exact accordance with the age of the contemporary
Tell el-Amarna letters about the Hebrew invasion in this ancient country.
The theory-convinced researchers
Based on exact and simply undisputable, archaeological evidence material,
many theory-convinced historians and theologians have had to give up - finally -
their claims about non-historical myths concerning Ur, the Hittites, and even King Midas, Buddha,
and many more. People of ancient time knew the difference between myths and
actual occurrences, so instead of undocumented assertions about myths as stated
by the researchers, they themselves ought to start proving whether historical
data are myths.
It is an inevitable fact
that none of the learned men in antiquity, not even those who were opponents to
the Bible or the Jews, has denied the existence of Moses. The denial proclaimed
among today's researchers would have been considered arrogant.
For almost 1,800 years
unconditional belief in the Bible was mandatory. Today, many academic
theologians do not recommend belief in the ancient parts of Bible, and when being confronted with
new, exact facts about real history these people may even refuse them with an
almost religious fanaticism and sometimes some aggression. However, when
initiating any investigation of ancient history it is rather irresponsible in advance to reject events of
the past as "imaginations". Why should people of ancient times be considered more
stupid than people of today and be equipped with a belief in old tall stories
about their knowledge of history?
Correspondance, 20 Februar 2009 -
info and comment:
When Homer, Moses and other authorships are being
split up to appear in greater numbers
By OVE VON SPAETH.
- With respect to Jens Jorgensen's letter, above.
Concerning the ancient
knowledge from Egypt and to use of codes to keep the information safe - a
method which even seem to be known by Homer - such is also connected in Ove
von Spaeth's articles on the Knights Templar and about Homer on this page
Regarding some academic
views of the ancient authorships the following commented info
should be added:
A problem appears to occur when from their present time related
positions many researchers of ancient texts obviously having difficulties in perceiving
circumstances concerning some of famous authorships of antiquity. Instead of
respecting the factual distance of several thousands of years concerning knowledge and
insight, and admit that these qualities have only partly been achieved, some important ancient writers
are now being claimed to be myths and the texts being written and pieced together by
many other writers - and always at a time much later than indicated in the
Also it is claimed
that events mentioned in the texts have never taken place - and likewise they
are also myths. As an example, the recounts presented in the Moses texts from about 1400 BC
are claimed to have been written in around 300 BC.
Moreover, the detailed
information of Homer's texts about the Trojan wars in 1200-1100 BC is said to
have been "invented" in 700 BC by Homer; but because many researchers consider
him a non-existing author, the text pieces are now being claimed written as myth
adventures by different writers of this later time.
Based on their contents
of narratives, rules, and poems, numerous attempts have been made to demonstrate
that the Books of Moses, the Pentateuch, have been written by many different writers - as if writers can only write in one style although it is elementary that a writer,
who writes poems, can also write prose; likewise that a lawyer can formulate
texts for legal documents and change his style when, for instance,
private circumstances are being described.
History presents many
writers who have written in distinctively different styles in their epos, poems,
and political texts, respectively. Generally, world history can hardly present a
major literary document which can be characterized as having an unfailing,
consistently pure style. Nevertheless, study of sources is guided by armchair
theories with a
Utopian, stylistic ideal of uniformity.
That the Moses texts
should be a conglomerate from many writers will, however - on this complex background -
still reflect the same lunacy as "placing a thousand monkeys in front of typewriters in order to
reproduce Shakespeare" through millions of years.
When authorships are being split up to appear in greater numbers
The somewhat individualistic style of "the 5th Book of Pentateuch" (claimed
in the widespread theory to belong to the so-called "D-source") may naturally be
due to the focus of this text: namely, that the story deals with the last months of
the exodus and explains the pact of the Law, thus summing up the
recent history and presenting to the people many circumstances necessary especially to the new
generation of Israelites, who on the Plains of Moab had been misled by the influence
This was also a
pep talk to the entire people who were eventually was facing the
commencement of the invasion of Canaanite
land. Some possibly newer adjustments in the writings cannot be used to contest
the age of oldest, original core of the texts.
Julius Wellhausen (1844-1918), the German biblical academician, famous for
his research of the history of the Old Testament and for his analysis of the
structure and dating of biblical texts, maintained strongly that the Books of
the Pentateuch had been compiled of four sources (the "documentary"
theory) which were often myth material revised or even written by many authors.
As a downright fashion wave the Wellhausen ideas quickly spread
also to other areas, i.e. non-biblical disciplines of text research. This can for
instance be seen in some of the later
analyses of Nordic sagas.
The Wellhausen effect also contributed to the allegation that the heterogeneous
style of Shakespeare's writing was the result of the efforts of as many as 50
writers. But then - how can the numerous genres of for instance "Don Quichotte"
by Cervantes be explained?
A typical "literary syndrome" emerging in connection with Homer can illustrate the problem: the
Wellhausen hypothesis was also especially used by Wilamowitz, the Prussian researcher
of ancient Greek. He claimed that chapters - or poems - of Homer's "Odyssey" had
been written by many different writers, each of their time, e.g. "the (alleged)
writer of the 9th song", "the (alleged) writer of the 10th song", etc.
Wilamowitz and his followers believed to be able to prove that the last part of
the 23rd song of the "Odyssey" (of in total 24 songs) had been written later,
because it is distinctively different from the other songs.
Later in the 20th century many researchers maintained that the two works
of Homer were written by at least a different writer of each one. It had been
noticed that the writer
of the "Odyssey" was very well acquainted with the "Iliad" (without
quoting it, however), while the opposite does not seem to be the case with the
If Homer in
that case is limited to two authors and not a greater number of writers, the
next question is about the ca. 30 years which seem to make the difference
between the "Iliad" and the "Odyssey" - that it may by most natural reasons
be due to the younger and the older version of the same writer personality.
Thus an entire
parallel to the academic-theoretic problematizing of Moses' authorship of
the Pentateuch is demonstrated, to which it is frequently mentioned that
especially the latest part of the Deuternomy in the Pentateuch shows a
slightly different style.
The study of ancient Greek language and culture was the leading, most esteemed,
and most authoritative discipline, and many researchers follow suit. Banal
errors in old copies of the ancient texts were made guidelines for alleged
styles and writers. Still, for instance French or Serbian mediaeval epics, which
cannot be suspected of forgery or hidden inclusions of other sources, are quite
as much containing so-called "errors" as the "Iliad" and the "Odyssey".
The known, reasonably solid facts are that the oldest core of the works (possibly
rendered verbally) about the Trojan ages of 1200-1100 BC, is considered to
origin from times prior to one of the oldest findings at all containing Greek alphabetical
writing. Namely, a text on a vase found on the Italian island of Lipardi and with an
archaeologically well recognized dating from the years of 800 BC - and where the
inscription presents a quotation from the "Iliad".
The letters from Troy ignored Some unfortunate ones among of the Wilamowitz ideas about the ancient Greek works are still being used,
although definitely belied long ago by for instance a number of American
researchers and especially by the letters from Hittite archives (now in Berlin),
thus the letters from King Hatusa, the Trojan ally - they are from the very time
of the plot of the "Iliad" by Homer.
This is bound to revolutionize the
perception of Homer, as the letters
present a wealth of well-known Trojan names of persons and places, i.e. Ilia,
Uil(u)ia; for example this city-state's Prince Paris who is mentioned both in
the archives and by Homer, however, frequently by his also well-known extra name, Alexandros Ilion.
Also, for instance, a helmet
mention by Homer that is was made of tusks of a wild boar - so quite unusual
that researchers considered it as poetical fantasies. However, exactly such a
helmet dating to the years of 1100 BC has actually been found at the so-called
Agamemnon royal tomb, i.e. the precise time and site of the point of departure of
the actions in the
John Kraft, Professor of
the University of Delaware, who has 20 years of experience of Greek topography
and geology, has proved that the landscapes of Homer's the "Iliad" in the
tiniest detail corresponds to the Trojan topography 3,000 years ago. This also
fits for example the elevated sea floor of today, from where according to
history it was possible from the city of Troy to look down immediately at ships
situated on the beach.
A number of experts
including linguists and historians support what geologic excavations show
that the "Iliad" is not "a simple legend": "... We can prove that the
landscapes exist ...", ("Geology", Journal of the Geological Society of
America, March 2003).
Scholars shouldn't ignore
Greek historian Strabo in his 'Geography' (1.1.10) stating: "… I and my
predecessors are right in regarding Homer as the founder of science of
It is also ignored that only 150 years after Homer, Greek philosopher
Heraclitus mentions that Homer's use of a mythic form was for a clothing of
the texts in order to create allegories.
Likewise, when the
researchers Ventris & Chadwick - who solved the mystery of the linear-B
writing as being the Mycenaean language - found out in the texts from Crete
from 1500-1400 BC that the Homeric names like Achilles and Hector can also
be seen here. According to this fact, Homer was a user of concrete historic
material rather than inventing fictions.
And in spite of that the
Hittite archives are using double names for one and the same person: Prince
Ilion and Prince Paris, this fact also is often ignored. However, kings and
princes were often named after their location and Troy's other name is Ilion
- hence Homer's work is called: Iliad.
Many researchers dismiss
also Troy and the Trojan war, but see this: A pre-Homeric poem from
ca. 700 BC by Archilochus - discovered in 1998 by Dr. W.B. Henry, Oxford
University - in an Oxyrhynchus Papyri (no. 4708 found in the Middle Egypt,
1897), describes that Greek warriors prior to the Trojan war mistaking a
city near Troy for the "city of Troy with its high gates" and was defeated,
many were killed, others captured as slaves. Homer describes a subsequent
ancient Greek expedition to Troy now as revenge (could the 'abducted
Helena' perhaps be a significant expression of the captured
Hellenians, i.e. 'Greeks'?).
researchers focus on, for instance, a systematic counting of names of sites
and heroes and use the result as a "proof" making the Homeric narrative
about this prince to be a compilation of several sources (five sources have
Then Homer is often
considered as being non-existing, a myth figure - i.e. parallel to some
theologians' perception of Moses - instead of focusing on Homer, who for his
inspiring descriptions has collected real historic backgrounds in the
ancient, concrete material then existing in different dialects.
Although the Homeric poems thus are alternating between Greek dialects - not
unusual in itself and is no proof that the work has had many writers - the
basis is Ionic. An alleged change of style in the last song of the "Odyssey"
is only due to the fact that the majority is a résumé - exactly as is the
case with the Deuteronomy in the Bible.
For also the Deuteronomy
is known for a special style which, likewise the case of the Homer, is
natural because of its account of the Moses' orations in direct form (except
for a scribe's final addition about the death of Moses). Correspondingly, it
is obvious that following a sequence of 40 years, his new, written language
must have improved and developed in this, the last book. - Cf. the
well-known example that Sigmund Freud changed to another (new) style in his
last work - which, by the way, was about Moses!
Another example: at an early stage researchers used the biblical mentioning
of an entirely unknown people, i.e. the Hittites, as a proof that the existence
of this people was an invented myth. However, German archaeological excavations at Boghazköy in
Turkey in 1906 uncovered the Hittite capital (Hattusa) and their culture, which
showed that the biblical mention in reality was based on a true rendering.
found during the excavation were brought to Berlin (here, the Bogázköy
Archives now being placed in the Vorderasiatisches Museum). From the texts
appear that the Hittites among their Trojan (!) neighbours were well
acquainted with Prince Paris - even under his other name too, Prince Ilion -
from Troy (Ilion). The Trojan names of the prince are clearly stated. The
text is from the time pointed out by all classic sources and Homer's
"Iliad", i.e. 1100 BC according to present chronology.
But even after having been acquainted with the mentioned archives for more than
a century - and instead of a matter-of-fact and unbiased conclusion that among
Homer's literary traditions or in the very myth is a clear existence of a number
of essential historic facts - many researchers nevertheless continue from their
armchair to state that the historic features of the "Iliad", Prince Paris, and Troy
are fiction and pure myth!
The very ancient town of Troy was perceived as a myth until 1870, when, based on
the exact topographic information of the "Iliad", Schliemann found the town at
Hisarlik, now covered by a hill. Then - in 1876 - he found the mythic Mycenaean
royal treasure. Both these findings were based on his systematic pioneer
archaeology - for instance with his improved inventions of a note system and
examination trenches - both methods became model for all later archaeologists.
discoveries did not make him popular in academic circles. His impressive
achievements including the very finding of the site of the town, to which work
he had extensive calculations methodically carried out on the site and not "at
the desk" contrary to what was not unusual at that time - were put down by his
critics; some said that "he had not found Troy, but only some towns in layers
above a presumed possible Troy". The view that the gold treasure he found might
be of a later date than Homer’s Troy cannot impair his effort.
Nevertheless, today it is known for sure (also topographically, cf. "Geology"
vol. 31, 2003, pp. 163-166) that Troy was situated at this exact site. Namely, layer number 6 or 7, possibly 7b-1 out of the
ca. 10 main layers with
built-up areas, including in total approx. 50 sub-divisions. (Cf. mentioning in
the "The Secret Religion", p. 323).
professor at Tübingen Universität, and leader of the Troy excavations, Manfred
Korfmann, has since 1988 found so many sensational items here, and he says, “...
At least we archaeologists have found a 'set piece' of the Troy/Ilios described
by Homer in the 700's BC, although already in his time it was ruins ...".
Joachim Latacz, Homeric expert and professor at the Universität Basel (Switzerland),
seconds him in 2001 in his book, "Troia und Homer" by claiming and motivating
that "... the assumed war about Troy is plausible ...".
archaeologist Helmut Becker confirmed by geomagnetic measurements, in 1994, the
large area of the extensive lower town (now partly excavated) for several
thousand people around the 'Acropolis fortress' which Schliemann originally
discovered as a basis for the find of the big historic city of Troy.
The Trojan horse In the spring of 2004 film director Wolfgang Petersen had a world-wide
first-night-opening of his spectacular Troy film - a project of milliards
including huge sums on making so many of the historic surroundings
look as authentic as possible in relation to the fixed conditions of the project. The way
in which the Troy film was received actually reveals with today's problems with
basic knowledge of culture history.
By reading the
film reviews, both local and international (CNN and BBC), it became clear
that they almost never pointed out that a leading part of the film, the huge
horse known as "the Trojan Horse", is not mentioned in the "Iliad". Although
just mentioned in the "Odyssey", it is only being really dealt with about
700 years later by Vergil.
For more than 2,000 years
this peculiarity has been debated - a debate which should be well-known by
everybody claiming knowledge about Homer. The director of the film should be
praised for his logic and excellent idea of moving forward the giant horse
to the "Iliad", where it can actually be said to have an obvious placement,
thus extending the plot of the "Iliad" to a conclusion by the fall of Troy.
This circumstance has
been ignored by reviewers as well as literates in their reviews of the film,
although they do not hesitate to comment critically on many features of the
literary and historic aspects of the film - a criticism founded on the idea
of how they desire "their" genuine "Iliad" - although not too well-known by
most of them apparently - i.e. how they believed it to be.
Also, many literary
experts and critics have maintained that the very Trojan horse is a myth,
since hiding warriors in a hollow horse would not be taken seriously (if
Troy existed at all). However, in today's Turkish areas archaeologists have
found huge ceremony bronze cast animals, for instance oxen - hollow as giant
vats so huge that they were able even to hold several people. Still, it must
have been known in the time of Vergil.
A similar contradiction
can be observed with some theological schools and branches of Egyptology,
where new and improved data of the research on Moses are being ignored or
rejected because it is preferred that a hitherto picture is not to be
changed or disturbed.
And the conclusive point:
obviously, good knowledge of history and history-literary matters is sometimes in short supply - not only in general but also among many experts.
Culture of the western
world has changed with express speed during the latest decades of the 20th
century, so it is only natural if much of ancient knowledge now is
considered less relevant. But is it realistic and useful to do this to such
an extent? But this is further encouraged by the fact that many theorists
with their obviously limited insight and their attitudes to the past, are
judging in a way almost as if they wanted to abolish history.
DISCUSSIONGROUPS & NEWSGROUPS - ON THE MOSES-SERIES
Discussiongroups, Ancient History of the
Bible World, 17 Feb 2008 - recommending:
Very interesting Danish independent scholar
Subject: Von Spaeth and
the Birth of Moses. - Yahoo! ID: marianneluban Ancient History Discussion of the Bible World. - The largest
English-speaking list in the world that allows un-moderated discussion of
Old and New Testament historical issues:
Hi all, Maybe those of you who know me think I've fallen off the globe, but
I'm still around - have just been very busy writing books. I've just put out
"The Pharaoh's Barber", a murder mystery set in the court of Thutmose III and,
by the end of the month, "The Priest" [as in Catholic, not ancient Egyptian] will
be available. That's a lot of time on a word-processor!
Anyway, I hope to be able
to engage in discourse with y'all again here. Many of you have never heard of
Spaeth, but he's a very interesting Danish independent scholar
[my favorite kind of people, when they're well-informed and reasonable] who
I thought I knew a lot about rabbincal literature, Midrashim, but here's something I missed and left
out in my own book - Rabbi Abrabanel's info on the state of the heavens around
the time of the birth of Moses.
Von Spaeth, the same guy who attributed the
year 1534 BCE to the heavenly configuration on the
ceiling of Senenmut, picked up on it.
Discussiongroups, Wales Pontypridd & Valleys
Forum, 7 December 2007 - opinions:
There is no such thing as "The" Bible
Wales, Pontypridd & Valleys
Forum - (present item:) The Bible (Read 2214 times)
There is no such thing as "The" Bible. There are many versions of this book,
and many parts missing. edited, lost or adjusted in translation. I think it
people who claim to be 'Christians' start telling others what this book says,
they should take care to specify what version/date/language version, they refer
to. Some say it was written by God, well if that's the case, then God is
There are many translations but most Christians are aware of those which stick
most closely to the original. I haven't yet heard anyone say it was written by
God. I've heard all Christians say that it was inspired by Him.
"Gwell Angu Na Chywilyd" Better Death Than Dishonour
TheologyWeb Campus - 24 November
2009 - suggestion:
Better, try this site: www.moses-egypt.net
TheologyWeb Campus > World Religions Dept. > Judaism > Torah: A Commentary of
Love (a response to Christians)
PDA, - View Full Version :
[Archive] Torah: A Commentary of Love (a response to Christians) Judaism ...
"Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people,
but thou shalt love thy ... November 24th 2008, 11:25 PM
I tried to read this entire thread but after the first 2 pages of 4 I found
myself somewhat distracted. I did see a lot of discussion about Moses and Jesus
and thought I would beg everyone's indulgence to ask about a site I recently
Discussiongroup: EBblog.dk, 12 November 2007
Did Ancient Jews Know the Swastika as a Non-Negative
owned by (name:) Kai Mikkelsen -
This blog is not being edited in advance by the Ekstra Bladet New Media. The
owner of the blog is responsible for all contents. _
Buddhist temples in the Far East use the Swastika as a pictogram.
Written by Kai
Mikkelsen on 12 November, 2007, at 12:23
# 1 Comment from an Anonymous (reply):
Isn't it turned around? Isn't it a sun sign? (which Hitler stole and
misused). Isn't that well-known to everybody?
Improper? Tip moderator!
Written on 12 November, 2007, at 12:45
Answer from Kai Mikkelsen:
It is not my impression. I had a comment deleted because a little girl was
frightened by an old, manipulated picture of the Europe Flag with an
inserted Turkish flag and a Swastika. I was warning against Fascist powers
in case of a wrong voting. This young person is too young to relate to the
occupation, but may have been told that it was something ugly - with the
result that she reported the comment and in this way the freedom of speech
and expression was again violated.
Improper? Tip moderator!
Written on 12 November, 2007, at 12:57
#4 Comment from BM (reply):
The nationality mark of the Finnish Air Force during 1918–44. It did not
origin from the Nazis, but from Swedish Count von Rosen, who helped out the
Finns in their fight for independence.
Improper? Tip moderator!
Written on 12 November, 2007, at 12:52
#7 Comment from BM (reply):
The truth about... Swastika og Hakenkreutz:
Hopies and Swastika. In his article on "Nostradamus
and the New Millennium", Ove von Spaeth
"... Hopi Prophecies. The Hopies, one of North America's oldest Indian
communities, have protected their very ancient rock inscriptions. These are
showing omens concerning, for instance, the world "after the great war",
where "evil powers abused the sign of the sun". This means Nazi-Germany's
swastika - where this sun-glyph was turned opposite in contrast to the old
traditions (of the Hindus using it in more than 5,000 years; also the
ancient Jews, and the Vikings seem to know this sign quite early) - and
Japan's national (war) flag, likewise, showed an ancient sun-sign ...
... According to the
Hopies, Hopi omens state that in the period after World War II humanity will
have a last greater chance to bring nature and the world into a better
balance and to become conscious about this instead of functioning
stupid-mechanical. Failing this, we shall, in the new age, soon follow the
wrong track inevitably, without being able to stop, 'leading towards the
abyss'. The omen is understood to include possibilities for alternative
results, especially if present generations will listen and change the
Ove von Spaeth's
AND THE NEW MILLENNIUM.
Additional: Feature in the Jyllands-Posten's Net edition, published on
21 January, 2007, (and mailed by Ove von Spaeth to the VisdomsNettet):
Hindus and the Swastika. For THOUSANDS OF YEARS the Swastika has been the
holy Hindu symbol, i.e. the cross that Hitler stole and made the Nazi stamp
of their atrocities.
The Swastika has already
been forbidden in Germany. Now, while heading the EU Presidency, Germany is,
among many activities, planning to pass a law forbidding the use of the sign
in all EU member states. Obviously, Hindus living in Europe are protesting,
because in the 5,000 years when the Swastika was their religious symbol, it meant the opposite of what Hitler did to it.
In the Hinduism the
Swastika is a symbol of the goodness and of peace. Contrary to that, the
Hitler Swastika means disaster, which the Nazis demonstrated in full by reversing the sign and making it the grotesque and gruesome symbol of their
violent regime and the Holocaust.
The Jewish dislike of the
Hitler Swastika is easily understood and accepted. Equally understandable is
the uneasiness of Germany and other European countries, when Neo-Nazi groups
use the symbols belonging to the Hitler era. But the Neo-Nazi problem cannot
be solved with a law making it impossible for Hindus to continue to use the
original version of the cross.
Of course the peaceful
version of the cross should not be prohibited, only because Hitler created a
reversed travesty, or naively believing that in this way Neo-Nazism can be
stopped. On the contrary it must be realized that the essence of the
Swastika problem is sheer ignorance of the original significance of the
symbol. Consequently, the EU objective should be to inform about the
difference of the two symbols by education and information.
The fact that Hitler
stole the holy Hindu symbol and used it as his stamp for terror, racism, and
religious discrimination is no acceptable reason for forbidding the original
symbol. That is only dealing superficially with a much more serious problem:
Improper? Tip moderator!
Written on 12 November, 2007, at 14:24
Answer from Kai Mikkelsen:
Thank you for the updating. Perhaps that may diversify the ideas of symbols
– although I doubt it.
Improper? Tip moderator!
Written on 12 November, 2007, at 17:05
Kai Mikkelsen, - http://www.ebblog.dk/3561/perma/32106 -
TheologyWeb Campus, 3 December 2008 -
Comments on Moses was born in 1534 BC
www.theologyweb.com founded January
2003. TheologyWeb Campus - powered by America's Independence. This is the
forum where world history, in general, can be discussed. Since the WH201,
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TheologyWeb Campus »
History Dept. »
World History 201 » Moses was born in 1534 B.C. - your comments?
_ _ _
Eeset Webber - (Female - Posts: 316 - Join Date: October 6th,
Post: #1 Moses was born in 1534 B.C. - your comments?
December 2nd 2008 , 09:14 PM
I would like to know what
others think of the works of the Danish scholar Ove von
Spaeth. Some of his works are translated into English. He has used a
combination of ancient sources to pinpoint the year and month of Moses's birth.
Here is a link to chapter one of book one of his 5 volume work. You can trace to
other available texts from this. I have found very little elsewhere on the net
about Mr. von Spaeth:
_ _ _
FreezBee Howdy in da igloo - (Male - Posts: 9,706 - Join Date:
February 8th, 2006)
Post: #2 Re: Moses was born in 1534 B.C. - your comments?
December 3rd 2008 , 07:30 AM - In reply to Eeset
I read some chapters of
volume 1 a few years ago, but didn't really find it particularly convincing and
gave up reading. - It is interesting that there is so little about von Spaeth in
English, although I am not sure how to interpret that.
_ _ _
Eeset tWebber - (Female - Posts: 316 - Join Date: October 6th,
Post: #3 Re: Moses was born in 1534 B.C. - your comments?
December 3rd 2008 , 11:34 AM - In reply to this post by FreezBee
Yes. That is what
bothered me a bit and when I read his resume, it says a lot but offers no
credential as an American or British resume would. I did find the latest
information on the Egyptian star chart and the dating of a celestial event at
1537 B.C. to be interesting. And evidently the Israeli antiquities group is
interested in his works. Archeology fascinates me and I wish I could find more
on the web that either corroborated what he is saying or discounted it for solid
reasons. If anyone has such links I would appreciate them.
_ _ _
FreezBee Howdy, in da igloo - (Male - Posts: 9,706 - Join Date:
February 8th, 2006)
December 3rd 2008 , 04:36 PM - In reply to this post by Eeset
Post: #4 Re: Moses was born in 1534 B.C. - your comments?
I only know of some
Danish links, but I suppose you can't read Danish, so no use to post those. -
ETA: if you are
interested, you can send a mail to
_ _ _
Eeset tWebber - (Female - Posts: 316 - Join Date: October 6th, 2008)
Post: #5 Re: Moses was born in 1534 B.C. - your comments?
December 3rd 2008 , 05:07 PM - In reply to this post by FreezBee
Thanks. I do have a
friend who is Danish. Do the links you have talk about the author or are they
links to his books and other stuff?
_ _ _
FreezBee Howdy in da igloo - (Male - Posts: 9,706 - Join Date:
February 8th, 2006)
Post: #6 Re: Moses was born in 1534 B.C. - your comments?
December 3rd 2008 , 06:36 PM - In reply to this post by Eeset
- - - - -
NOTE (pres. webmaster, moses-egypt.net) : a practical reference
for above mail post #3, 3.Dec.2008,11:34am by 'Eeset tWebber' searching the
author's credentials, a whole page
authordata-4: Reflecting Views presents contrubutions from more than 35
experts and professionals, mostly academics and scholars at universities and
India Discussion Forum -
November- December 2008
- opinions on religions:
Try this sample: Freud on Moses
India Discussion Forum,
India-Forum.com - news and analysis - Item: Historicity of Jesus - 2
Shambhu Nov 20 2008, 10:39 PM Post #242 Group: Senior Member -
Posts: 1103 - Joined: 15-May 05 - Member No.: 697
Check these out: Online texts and books to be read:
Evolution of the Semitic faiths
ramana Dec 5 2008, 02:23 AM Post #248 Group: Senior Member -
Posts: 1905 - Joined: 3-October 03 - Member No.: 99
Dhu, You need ot read Freud's "Moses and monotheism" He is clear that all those
religios are based on political needs and an idea of universal empire. He traces
the origins to the 18 Dynasty Pharoh who for whatever reasons acquired an Empire
beyond Egypt and needed to craft a religoion that was beyond Egypt's theogny.
And his intimate was Thutmose who took the religion to the frontier tribes some
of whom were enslaved. Thutmose is Moses. They latter killed him in revolt as
his version was harsh to their sensibilities and that led to the forty years of
wandering. Very gripping. So it could be the same type of rehash a few centuries
dhu Dec 16 2008, 06:54 AM Post #253 Group: Senior Member -
Posts: 1779 - Joined: 17-April 04 - Member No.: 272
The Saint, The Criminal And The Terrorist. - QUOTE:
Actually, the act goes beyond transformation: terrorism is
trans-substantiated crime. "Trans-substantiation" refers to the miraculous
transformation of some particular substance into another one. (During the
Mass, for instance, Roman-Catholics believe that bread and wine are
transformed into the body and blood of Christ.) This happens in the case of
terrorism as well: crime becomes morally praiseworthy. It does not concern
so much a particular crime, but rather the transformation of the entire
domain of crime. This trans-substantiation results in the re-presentation of
crime as morally praiseworthy. We suggest that what brings about this
"miracle" is an ideology, which we would like to call "the ideology of
crime". It is our hypothesis that such an ideology exists today and that
acts of crime can become acts of terrorism because of what this ideology
does and how it does so.
We know that Trans-substantiation as portrayed in the roman gospels
encompasses getting the colonized to feast (ironically) on their own awaited
Messiah, whose identity is actually overtaken (again ironically) by the colonial
power. This would suggest that one function of the gospels was to normalize the
crimes of the colonial power (as terrorism).
ramana Dec 16 2008, 11:35 PM Post #254 Group: Senior Member -
Posts: 1905 - Joined: 3-October 03 - Member No.: 99
Dhu, Again try to get hold of Freud's "Moses and Montheism". Its on
Amazon's used books. The book is unputdownable in view of the current problems.
He explains the blood letting of Jahve.
Also see the works of
Eduard Meyer on Moses. Looks like it was always a political movement. They
had no idea of separation of church and state in all these 'religions'.
Freud says the idea of
ploitical leader and religious head comes from the way Moses behaved to the
Jewish people. And he got that from the Pharaohs!
In a way all the things
we are seeing is the rejected faith of Akhenaton that is morphing its way in
many forms - Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Marxism, Secualrism, and Nazism.- All
are methods of political control of people by means of "religion/killigion". -
Talk of the revenge of the Pharaohs! - Try this sample : Freud on
www.moses-egypt.net/book-series/ovs_related-articles-c_en.asp ) - Has
some illustrations also.
Hi Turnofthetide. - Senmut was a heir to the throne on flight. Senmut was
Neferure's teacher and she was intiated early as wife of the god, they should
have been married together despite of the bloodline, royal brothers and sisters
were often married in ancient Egypt. Neferure became Hatshepsut's co-regent . 19
years of peace under the reign of Hatshepsut - it was first under Tuthmosis III
the battles begun with Canaanite kings and the Nubians in south, and all the
years under Tuthmosis III reign Egypt was constantly at wars in north and south.
Senmut and Tuthmosis was fighting each others - Senmut wanted his right to the
Tuthmosis III was a great
copycat and used Senmuts skills against him, Tuthmosis III took even credit for
Khu mennu/Amon temple hall, but it was Senmut work, it seems that these obelisks
in honour of Hatshepsut father Tuthmosis I costed him dearly, and yes the
carvings of Tuthmosis III's name on the obelisks have been poorly restored
exactly were he cut out Senmut's name and replaced it with his own.
II and Thermoutis/Hatshepsut (daughter of Tuthmosis I) had no male children together,
but Tuthmosis II had a child with with his concubine Iset - this child became
later Tuthmosis III. However, Hatshepsut had a child with Reuel/Hobab/Jethro(the
Nile god) - by hieros gamos ritual) gave birth to Senmut/Mosis according to
new research and ancient historians as well. ...
Turnofthetide claim": Senmut's parents, their burial on display at the Met in
NYC): Was not his biological parents, was his nurse and his teacher, unfortunately all this
research is still in Danish only... But you can have a sneak peek here: http://www.moses-egypt.net/book1/moses1-cap1_en.asp http://www.moses-egypt.net/book1/moses1-cap2_en.asp http://www.moses-egypt.net/book1/moses1-cap3_en.asp
... I am not aware of any original source information that Senemut became an
outcast. The priesthood contrary to common view was not that powerful during the
early 18th Dynasty. And ironically, it was Thutmose III who provided the huge
economic base to the priesthood that may have stirred up trouble for the last of
his successors. Trying to make Senemut into Moses does not fly. During his time
all of the Sinai and the Levant was Egypt. There was no exodus, if ever there
was one, during his lifetime.
I am interest in any good
reference to work connecting Hatshepsut's mortuary temple to celestial markers.
Just read a bit from
the man (Ove von
Spaeth) who's website I linked to - and you might start to have another sight of 18 dyn.
history. - And yes there is a lot of ancient scripts to look at which gives
another picture, if you just want to sit the next 20 years in libraries all over
Europe to dig up evidence, of all kind of sources, this of course most if biblical
scholars etc. continue to refuse his work, fine with me, the only problem is
track of searching is not enough to give a full picture ...
And what is wrong with
internet to give you a sight as long you can't read my language and
his 5 volume
work, and English is not my mothertongue.
Best - Martini
I took a look at Ove von Spaeth's work, that is the comments about it and some basic
claims. It is an
extensive amount to work, but in part based on some extreme oversights. As to
Moses, he asserts Senemut was Moses and also the son of Hatshepsut. But
Hatshepsut and Senemut were fairly close in age, and Senemut may have been older
than Hatshepsut. Senemut is protrayed as an adult when he was the tutor to a
very young Neferure. More damning is that if Senemut was Hatshepsut's son and
there was a desire to make him Pharaoh, Thutmose III would never have been given
command of the military during her lifetime. The military could trump the
ordinary priesthood. - Best wishes for you.
Chnemet-Amun Hatshepsut b 1551 crowned 1534 as her father Tuthmosis I's
co-regent, all that can you read directly in her tempel Deir el-Bahari.
Senmut born May 1534 bc
(According to the starmap in his mortuary) crowned 1531 bc as heir to the throne
acc. Cicero, Dioderus, Eusebius, Justin, Origenes, Philo Judaeus, Pollio
Trebillius, Manetho, Tacitus, Artapanus, Eupolemus, - and this is just a short
list of ancient writers about Senmut/Moses. - But as I told before it's
important to read all (of
Ove von Spaeth's) 5 books to get a full picture of that era.
When you say: Here
is a fact, in one of his tombs there are steles, and steles 4 and 5 (South Wall)
states: "The steward of the granaries of Amun, Senemut, justified, born of
Ramose from the body of Hatnofer". - Answer: In Egyptian language it is -
as normally - to be read in many ways, and even Hatshepsut had a statue of her
nurse Sitre (Inet) (Carter 1903) in Deir el-Bahari, that doesn't mean she was
her biological mother but was highly loved and respected person.
In all my text here also
most of the
following facts are found in
Ove von Spaeth's
works - and they are well-researched and well-known in Egyptology:
First, it was normal in
AE - and still is today among the Arabs - that if a person is breastfeed by his
nurse, she is called his mother and her own children are also called his
brothers and sisters.
"parents" were employees at the court, Hatnofer was royal nurse, - if Senmut
have not been of royal blood, he would not have been nursed by a royal nurse.
Hatshepsut had the royal title title "The Father's Sister" (the father was
Tuthmosis I), and Senmut also had such name in principle - Senmut means "The
And then some question:
Why didn't Senmut NEVER mention Tuthmosis II or Tuthmosis III as well in his
inscriptions but only mention H and her father Tuthmosis I in his work which
there is a lot of all over Egypt?
When TII was crowned he
was of a lower bloodline than H. - TII's parent was TI and concubine Mutnofret. -
Hatshepsut parent was TI and queen Ahmosis, that's why she is crowned at a young
age where TII only was approx. 11-12 years and H 14-15.
Ancient text says that
Tuthmosis II disliked the child of H, of course it wasn't his son probably
because he was not old enough or initiated to play the Nile god in the hiero
gamos act which was an important part and ritual.
Why was Senmut depicted
as foreign minister in the official tomb TT71, were he receive foreign
ambassadeurs, it is also unusual that it is the first depiction of (pre)Aegean
represents in upper Egypt. Beautiful non egyptian paintings and decorations in a
kind of Minoan style and 16-sided beautiful pillars and titles as Minister of
foreign affairs was also a post to possess for upcoming Pharohs.
Why was Senmut at
an early age of mid 20's sent to Punt (Deir el-Bahari) as a general? was it
possible for a common boy of a poor family? - a general in his 20's, he must
have been quite extraordinary and already at that time had showed unique skills
in diplomacy and warfare.
His skills as architect
is beyond dispute his own official tomb TT71 where statue of he and Neferure, and
all over inside and outside the tomb is found material and stones with magic
projection of his names which was common ritual: "They were not to be seen by
Senmut also had several
of his inscriptions hidden under layers of gypsum in TT71. He used foreign
workers to keep the work secret, mostly African and Asiatic names are found in
the workers intern communication. It is here he also inscribed the words that by
any destruction of his statue the destructor will be never ... etc. (search for that).
Many of his statues is
cubic formed and he raised quite a lot of statues, selfportraits, around in
Egypt, which was common for a pharaoh and would not be allowed for a ordinary
building constructor in such extreme extent
Many of Senmut statues
are double statues there shows both him and Neferure the young co-regent and
Neferure with the royal sceptre in the hand. A public emphasize of Senmut
intimates a clear relationship with the royal power. Similar statues of him are found
He invented rebus to hide
names. Look at D-el-B over the doors in H's temple. Goddess Nechbet flyes as a
big white bird, with accentuated eyes and with the KA-sign in the "claws",
together it's a code formed as a syllable code. - The white wild goose er
highest god Amun's symbol, while the goddess is law-god Maat, to all of which is
added ka-symbol and the eyes, meaning "Re" - together this code produces the
Maat-ka-Re was most used
name-of-the-throne for Chemet(t)Amun Hatshepsut, - cf. books by French
Egyptologist, Ètienne Drioton, who solved some of the name protection 'codes'.
Senmut mentions himself as
the inventor of this rebus system 'cryptoglyph' at the black granite statue
(together with Neferure), now in Cairo and another one in Berlin. Why doing this
and why make two secret tombs - one for H and one for himself - written all over
that it was him who built them, a commoner would not be allowed to do that and not
making an obviously royal tomb for himself and with a granite sarcophagus etc. a
masterpiece - and why suddenly abandon it before it was finished, and tring to finish
the secret tomb:
Again, the Senmut tomb no.
TT71 was the first of its kind in Sheik Abd el Gurney, and Inemi (architect in
mid-kingdom) seem to have inspired him a bit and is a forerunner by his
constructions of the temple at Deir el Bahari (which high-priest, Hapuseneb, took over
because of the untraditionel structure of power).
TT71 have 148 m2 floor
which is of royal size and the biggest in the area. P.F. Doorman can't
understand why Senmut had 2 tombs and suggest this first design was his chapel
though a tomb was always built first (and this one even with a sarcophagus) and
though Senmut, also, had built a chapel at Geb es-Silsaleh.
In the underground in
front of the tombs impressing entrance was found, in 1936, a simple family tomb
under layers of waste from the Senmut tomb. Burried under the waste 8 coffins of
mummies including Senmuts 'foster-parents' was found - and a horse was buried
nearby in with full ornament. Privatly owened horses was rare in Egypt at that time, and only belonged to
Here, the archaeologs have also
found 4 other persons from Senmut's household: Harmose (music teacher) buried
near his fosterparents and the manager Tusy incl. 2 unknown. All sign of a quick
funeral - and tNefurere's cartouche is marked on some of the linned stating that
it is of older date and at that time Nefurere must have been tone of voice when
she disappeared if she had royal monogram. It is discussed that they all died
more or less at the same time, were they all murdered? and could fostermother
Hanofer also have been nurse for Neferure?
Hatshepsut's name has
been found in 12 places or cases in Ramose and Hatnufer family tomb, 6 of the
times added: King of Egypt. H took over at approx. 1509 and was crowned 1502 so the
graves are from after this period. Jars doesn't tell the precise date or age of
the entomb and also when Senmut started to built his own official tomb which
At that time Tuthmosis
III must have been 8-9 years and he is not mentioned at all. But he have carved
his own name in a lot of Senmut statues, which was ready to be engraved with
Senmuts royal name when he was supposed to be Pharaoh, which also was common.
TIII's robbery of Senmut's identity and destroying H's name in disrespect after
this new pharaoh TIII came to power, and there is also found a Senmut statue
used as deposit in TIII poorly built temple, and TIII's name is carved on it.
Once again, TIII was never
crowned but was strongly supported by the Amun-priesthood who hated Senmut, and
they put TIII to power.
Nobody has ever as Senmut
been in possession of or left so many traces of royal family background - which
made it possible for him to combine his career among other things as deputy of
Pharaoh, astronomer and architect.
Why Neferure had
disappeared suddenly? Neferure was the first daughter of TII-H (TII and H didn't
have male children together). They had at least the daughters: 1: Nefurere and 2:
Maitre-Hatshepsut. Nefurere was actually more royal than Tuthmosis III, and
where is her tomb? had she been killed? and where is the body? Conspiracy? So
there is something utterly mystic.
And unfortunately Senmut
and Hatshepsut couldn't go against TIII's damnation memoria-action. Which also
hit Senmen, another of Senmut entrusted men!
H died also suddenly -
she disappeared a couple of years after Senmut disappeared,- was she killed?
We'll know when science have cross-examined what they say is Hatshepsut it will
give valuable information for further research. And I suppose if the Dna test
had been good you'd probably have seen dr. Hawass announced it with a fanfare
and now it is more than 1 year ago, - strange that he seems to have forgot to
tell us more about the mummy he claims is Hatshepsut.
And again there is a tons
of material there is now available it was analysed, and put together from more
than 1000 different sources - just call it contorted evidence. This research,
carried out by Ove von Spaeth, is also suited for further evaluation and
research, and when you call it nonsense, then you also say the quoted ancient
writers and texts of Antiquity are completely nonsense although the ancient
scholars and writers had access to valuable documents and have copied
information from these, - a pity the Alexandria library was burned.
Again! this is only very
small part (and probably hard to read because of my Danglish) of the
meticulously documented and coherent picture that Ove von Spaeth presents
and which is open for being objectively verified and explored by any future
And at last I'm not here
to say what is right or wrong, Ove von Spaeth's work, just interest me because
his research and sources are huge and bring up so much information and knowledge
for further research. - Best regards, Martin
Quote from: nateswift on November 21, 2009, 04:40:26 PM
though. The star mentioned in "Amos" is representative of an Egyptian god that
was worshipped by the Hebrews in the Desert after Egypt. Connecting it with the
"Star of David" is just another example of "a little learning is a dangerous
thing...." That star represented in Egyptian heiroglyphs is 5 pointed
The talisman symbol of
the god mentioned in the book of Amos Amos, Chiun (Saturn):
In the larger text has
the god's name given as Rempha (found in the Greek translation of Amos, used by
Jesus and the Apostles, and recorded in Acts by Luke). The text also identifies
the star Saturn. (The bull represents the constellation Taurus, or possibly the
Egyptian version of Saturn.) Israel uses on its flag a pagan symbol condemned by
Tell me about the
five-pointed Egyptian star of Chiun.
« Reply #48 on: November 23, 2009, at 01:52:33 AM » 23.11.09
Well, I looked up the talsman you note, and it is cited in a number of sites
that are blatantly anti-Israel and I didn't see any sources for their
assertions. I didn't see any sites using the materiel that did not follow that
I have seen three sites
that may be interesting:
DEBATE AND NEWS ON OVE VON SPAETH'S DATING THE OLDEST EGYPTIAN STAR MAP
Aspiranten (Norway), 3 year, no. 6, June
2004, pp. 7-14 - feature:
Nostradamus - and the New Millennium
Michel de Notredame, doctor and legendary prophecy writer in the
renaissance, was very famous most of his life and far beyond, even up till today
- and also much debated.
Scientifically, and without a key, it is difficult to say whether - in the
mid-1600 century - he was able to predict Napoleon and Hitler in later
centuries, - although, names, times, and places might have a similarity with
historic facts. However, modern astronomy computation can be used on a hitherto
missed out part of his statements concerning the year 1999. The result proved to
hit a special phenomenon of time.
The number 1999 is published as "open", being the only exact year he ever
stated in his writings; and Basiliscus/Regulus is the only star placed exactly
in the "track of the sun", which really is the track of the earth: the Ecliptic.
This track is the only part of the sky where solar eclipses and lunar eclipses
can take place - thus the name Ecliptic, the 'eclipse' line. ..." .....
(Read the whole article:
Re: Quantavolution,Solaria Binaria,Homo Schizoid,Bicameral Mind
In The Mysteries of the
Great Cross of Hendaye, Alechemy and the End of Time, Jay Weidner and Vincent
Bridges talk about alchemy and the "Science of Light" (Pages 248-255)
To the kabbalist, the
lightning flash, the creative sequence of the unfolding Light, reveals the
underlying structure of reality in the ten sefirot. In the symbolic Kabbalah,
this lightening flash becomes the flaming sword. In Fulcanelli's hands the image
becomes the sword in stone, the alchemical extraction of knowledge from the
Stone of the Wise, which initiates the Golden Age, a new Camelot, here on earth.
These three nails are the
anchor points of the three axes of the Galaxy, the clue to understanding the
true ancient nature of the cross.
To the ancient Egyptians,
the Tree of Life was symbolized by the Djed pillar, the backbone of Osiris.
Djedd, the same words with a slightly different emphasis, means "star" or
actually the culmination or azimuth of the star. This same word, djedd, is also
a perfectly good Hebrew word dzeth, and they both mean "olive tree."
Somehow the cross, the
ankh, became a stone, and not just any stone, but the rejected stone that became
the headstone of the corner, the support upon which Jesus built his church. And
somehow this is the "first matter, "the First Stone", the cornerstone of the
alchemical Great Work. Just how does a tree (the ankh that contains the entire
Tree of Life and the cross is a component of the World Tree) become a stone?
The answer seems to lie
with the ancient myths of the World Tree at whose feet, in many if not most of
the very ancient myths, there can be found a stone or a cube that is somehow
plugging up the torrent of the deluge.
The first of our five
symbolic components, the stone from which the sword of wisdom is extracted, is
the cross/stone of space-time itself, the Cube of Space formed from the three
axes of the Galaxy.
It was the earliest
prototype for the obelisk and maybe also for the pyramid, and it is believed
perhaps to symbolize the petrified semen of Atum.
summarizes the essential scientific concepts behind the plan to literally
transform the whole planet into a superconductive holograph that bends
Quantum chaos is the top
cutting-edge field of Freemasonic science and quantum chaos is the statistical
control of light applied to unpredictable macroevents.
The secret to solving
this Long Term Potential conundrum is again alchemical resonance that most
efficiently occurs through the yin-yang, sinusoidal (or sine) wave of
This secret is why the
Tesla Coil only uses sine waves or harmonic waves and quantum chaos
already acknowledges that the sine wave creates a "hidden coherence" that bends
spacetime. The sine wave is the secret behind current faster-than-light quantum
electronics as detailed by physic professors Raymond Chiao and Carl R. Hagen.
When the rate of change
between frequency and amplitude is close to zero, the secret of
quantum chaos science, then a self-sustaining resonance occurs. This is because
the spiral of energy drives itself through superconductive resonance and then
when the vacuum is reached antigravity is created.
This same free energy
process occurs with the antigravity uplift in the center of a tornado and is
what Victor Schauberger called the "cycloid-spiral space-curve motion.
- - - - -
Re: Quantavolution,Solaria Binaria,Homo Schizoid,Bicameral Mind
A continuation on the topic in the above post:
Life on earth was
supposed to have been seeded from the stars. What if life was originally silicon
based because of these extraterrestrial minerals? Carbon-based life as we know
it today was "post deluvian."
What is the connection between a virus and a crystal?
Well, sometimes a virus
is a crystal. They can crystallise and (as far as I know) still be infectious
afterwards. Indeed, biological crystallography is based on the idea that
proteins crystallise (and diffract) just like minerals. So what's the difference
between a protein crystal and a salt crystal?
So is it at all possible
to have mineral organisms? Well, there is (at least) one feasible hypothesis
that involves quite complex inorganic crystals and mechanisms for their
replication and selection. This mineral is clay: or structures like it. Clays
form a heterogeneous group of crystal forms that are relatively sensitive to
environmental conditions for their growth. They also 'breed' by breaking in half
to form two new crystals. Their shapes are heritable, in the sense that the
grain pattern templates new layers with the same pattern. Like stacking carpets
according to the direction of the arrows woven into them.
Why are there so many creation myths where a god formed humans out of clay?
I have just read your 15 pages text concerning:
Nostradamus - and the New Millennium ..!! and I can relate all what has been
written about... and I just want to say that mankind - to be most directly - is
now in deep water... hi, thomas;
(ed. note for moses-egypt.net:)
Ove von Spaeth's article: "Nostradamus
- and the New Millennium" is also found via
Zenith-files article base or
www.thirax.dk. Thomas has read it and reflects somewhat 'pessisimistic'.
- For orientation:
Ove von Spaeth's analysis is stating, on the contrary, the logics in
disarming some alleged 'doomsday'.
1530s BC - en.wikipedia.org, 16
December 2007 - references:
Category: 1530s BC _
1530s BC - From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Millennia: 2nd millennium BC
Centuries: 17th century BC - 16th century BC - 15th century BC
Decades: 1560s BC 1550s BC 1540s BC - 1530s BC - 1520s BC 1510s BC 1500s BC
Years: 1539 BC 1538 BC 1537 BC 1536 BC 1535 BC 1534 BC 1533 BC 1532 BC
1531 BC 1530 BC
Categories: Births - Deaths - State leaders - Sovereign states - Establishments
Events and trends
• 1539 BC - End of Seventeenth dynasty of Egypt, start of the Eighteenth
• 1539 BC - Approximate first use of the Valley of the Kings.
• 1534 BC - The oldest dated star chart was made in Ancient Egypt.
• 1530 BC - End of First Dynasty of Babylon and start of the Kassite Dynasty -
see History of Iraq.
1. von Spaeth, Ove (1999). "Dating
the Oldest Egyptian Star Map". Centaurus International Magazine of the
History of Mathematics, Science and Technology 42 (3): 159-179. Retrieved on
The Egyptians and the stars
Ove von Spaeth's analysis of Egyptian star maps from 1534 BCE:
Discovery In the World's Oldest Star Map", requires some analysis of von
Spaeth himself, his books and how he is received in the relevant academic
Google on "Ove von Spaeth" 1,080 hits for the dbl blip delimited (") Ove von
Spaeth, which indicates some genre-related reknownedness.
- My OR (operations
research) valuation: he is an independent scholar specialized in the historical
existence of Moses, and claims that he was a pure Egyptian of the royal family
who lost in the power struggles and allied with the Hebrews in Egypt, this in
connection to Ahmose I:s campaign against Hyksos (= Hebrews), his books are
well done research, acceptable according to academic measures, but probably
a little sweeping regarding details and extra theories irrelevant for the main
Von Spaeth himself
expresses an interest in following mainstream academic patterns before
subjective and religiously colored thinking, for which he have received
criticism from fundamentaloid Christians and some such creatures ... I've
independently speculated in Hyksos = Hebrews, and this connection seems to occur
now and then among historians, so my OR valuation says that von Spaeth argues
validly, although maybe speculatively ...
7th century star chart Posted May 7, 2009 10:02 pm WSJ article on digitalizing ancient manuscripts has a slide of a 7th century
Chinese star chart thought to be the oldest map of the stars. The chart shows
1,339 stars. online.wsj.com/article/SB124172394666697...d=article-outset-box slide#5/11 It was discovered at the Dunhuang in China and is now in the British Library. If
you go to the British Library site, you can read up in the International Dunhung
Searching the British Library finds more panels from the star chart at www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/features/silkroad/starchartlge.html
and the following
interesting commentary: "By the sixth and seventh century China the stars were
part of a complex group of beliefs which ranged from lucky and unlucky days,
fengshui, the power of talismans, the predicative power of heavenly signs, to
the zodiacal animals. Privately produced almanacs of the time included all these
elements and were enormously popular, despite the fact that the making of
calendars was strictly reserved for the imperial astronomers." www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/features/silkroad/themesky.html
2nd Vice President,
PAS Times Editor, - Posts: 308 - #908 - (10.May.2009)
19 August 2009
Very interesting reading this ancient star map
SCA_Scribes_&_Illumination - ISO Castor and Pollux
ISO Castor and Pollux
I am looking for period depictions of the Gemini twins, Castor and Pollux. I
found one I like from a 15th cent. French manuscript but I have no other
documentation for it than that. If anyone has other picture references, websites
etc I can look at I would appreciate it. - Thank You, /Master Tristan
Re: [SCA_S&I] ISO Castor and Pollux
Best bet is to look for medieval astrology tables:
Not much on the web,
seemingly, at least not from manuscripts. You might try also seeing if you can
find a good pick of the ceiling frescoe of the Sala di Galatea - I could only
find small images but the frescoe appears to have quite a few astronomical
references in it.
I did find several
astronomical tables in a book I have of medieval drawings, as well as one nice
pic in "Astrology in Medieval Manuscripts" from the Yale University Press. Hope
freeforumzone.leonardo.it - 27
Egittophilia - archeoastronomica Egizia
EgiTToPhiLìa » - Il mondo degli Egizi: natura, Stato, valori
- Archeoastronomica Egizia
Diciamo che l'artista
dell'epoca egizia potrebe aver "stilizzato' il tutto, cosa sovente nelle varie
civilta' antiche (a parte i cinesi che hanno fatto delle mappe spettacolari!! ma
li il culto dell'astrologia/astronomia era al amssimo livello).
A propsoito conoscete per
caso questo libro/dati e il tizio che l'ha fatto? (oddio ma perche' maledizione
non mi fa incollare un indirizzo internet? ) :
AfroCentric Culture by Design - 16 december
Updated Ancient Astronomy
New Discovery in the World's Oldest Star Map
UPDATED ANCIENT ASTRONOMY:
The astronomical knowledge of the ancient Egyptians turns out to be surprising
broader than previously imagined. According to a new analysis, the world's
oldest star-map seems to contain information of an actual celestial event of
its time. This recent discovery, uncovers the earlies scienticfic description of
an otherwise rare but not unknown celestial phenomenon.
The Map configurations have been considered mostly as mythological displays, are now disclolsed to be accurate depictions of a rare gathering of planets in
well-defined celestial positions. The information contained in the map refers to
a specific point of time. The re-evaluations of this subsequent maps give birth
to perspectives: by introducing these new reference points of time, the
appropriate chronology of the epoch in question, which has been much disputed,
may now be dated with considerably greater precision than hertofore possible.
This 3,500-year old star
map, which decorates one of the ceilings in the tomb of SENMUT (Senenmut) near
Luxor (Thebes), appararently demonstrates a previously unknown aspect of the
astronomical situation in Egypt around 1,500 BC. This revelations is the result
of investigations by
researcher Ove von Spaeth, and published in July-August-2000
in vol. 42 of the international journal of history of science "Centaurus".
29 June 2009
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I was tasked to research about the Ancient Egyptians' perception of the
universe, so that my groupmates and I could compare it's difference from that of
the Mayan, Greek, and Chinese. I tried searching, but my searches showed me
nothing of importance; the same answers and too little info. So, if you guys
know of a reliable source of information from the net, or from any book, please
help me out. I appreciate your help. Thanks in advance. God bless.. :)
DNVI, Forum for Cosmological Information no.
4, - December 2007 - reference:
Star cult was the world picture of previous times
Star cult was the world picture of previous times and the interpretation of
life, cf. "in heaven as on earth". Guidance was sought for life on earth in "as
in heaven" because micro cosmos reflects macro cosmos. Everything has a
"celestial copy", as Swedenborg also said.
Without knowing about the
symbolism of ancient star knowledge, the profound meaning of many biblical
issues cannot be perceived, in particular the Revelation of St. John. When
attempting to understand the astro-mythological world picture, which to a wide
extent is the basis of the Bible, much insight can be provided by
Ove von Spaeth's book, "The
Secret Religion" (the 4th volume of the series, "Assassinating Moses",
Reitzel Publishers, 2004).
Ove von Spaeth focuses on
the many important layers of the Bible, and in this way he also demonstrates the
naivety when interpreting in the literal sense of the biblical words. However,
the layers in disguise were only available to those specially initiated.
Ruth Olsen, ed., The New World's Impulse, Forum for
Cosmological Information, No. 4, December 2007, 25. year, pp. 6-7. -
it.wikipedia.org, Storia delle osservazioni,
December 2007 - l'enciclopedia:
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stella - Da Wikipedia, l'enciclopedia libera.
Storia delle osservazioni
Storia delle osservazioni. La Via Lattea.
Le stelle hanno da sempre una grande importanza per tutte le culture, sia in
ambito religioso sia come ausilio per l'orientamento negli spostamenti e durante
Gli astronomi antichi ritenevano che le stelle fossero dei puntini immutabili
permanentemente incastonati nella sfera celeste. Per convenzione, essi
raggrupparono gli astri in costellazioni e se ne servirono per tracciare i
percorsi compiuti dai pianeti e dal Sole nel corso dell'anno. Il moto del
Sole sullo sfondo delle stelle fisse e dell'orizzonte fu utilizzato per redigere
dei calendari, impiegati per regolare le pratiche agricole. Il calendario
Gregoriano, utilizzato attualmente in ogni parte del mondo, è un calendario
solare basato sull'angolo dell'asse di rotazione terrestre relativo al Sole.
antica ed accurata carta stellare comparve nell'Antico Egitto nel 1534
a.C.. Gli astronomi islamici diedero nomi arabi, gran parte dei quali
ancor'oggi usati, a un gran numero di stelle, ed inventarono numerosi strumenti
astronomici in grado di tenere in conto la posizione degli astri. Nell'XI secolo
l'astronomo Abū Rayhān al-Bīrūnī descrisse la nostra galassia, la Via Lattea,
come una moltitudine di frammenti dalle proprietà tipiche delle stelle nebulose;
calcolò anche la latitudine di alcune stelle durante un'eclissi lunare avvenuta
Note e riferimenti
8. Dal Dizionario etimologico on-line. URL consultato il 2007-12-25.
9. George Forbes. History of Astronomy (Free e-book from Project
Gutenberg). London, Watts & Co., 1909.
10. Claus Tøndering. Other ancient calendars. WebExhibits. URL consultato il
11. Ove von Spaeth (1999/2000), Dating the Oldest Egyptian Star Map, Centaurus
International Magazine of the History of Mathematics, Science and Technology, 42
(3): 159-179. URL accessed on 2007-10-21.
12. A. Zahoor. Al-Biruni. Hasanuddin University, 1997. URL consultato il
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, Ancient
Egyptian technology - references :
Ancient Egyptian Astronomy and astrology
Ancient Egyptian technology. From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ancient Egypt Portal
What the Egyptians invented, devised and improved ...
This article is part of WikiProject Ancient Egypt, a collaborative effort to
improve Wikipedia's coverage of Egyptological subjects. (see
Wikipedia: Contributing FAQ for more information).
Ancient Egyptian technology
The characteristics of Ancient Egyptian technology are indicated by a set of
artifacts and customs that lasted for thousands of years. The Egyptians invented
and used many basic machines, such as the ramp and the lever, to aid
construction processes. They used rope trusses to stiffen the beam of ships,
unknown again until modern engineering.
1.6 Astronomy and astrology
Early Egyptian culture identified celestial objects with deities and spirits.
They related these objects (and their movements) to phenomena such as rain,
drought, seasons, and tides. It is generally believed that the first
"professional" astronomers were religious leaders in the temples, and that their
understanding of the "heavens" was seen as "divine", hence astronomy's ancient
connection to what is now called astrology. Ancient structures with astronomical
alignments (such as Pyramids and temples) probably fulfilled both astronomical
and religious functions. Egyptian astrology provided star charts that have been
found in Egypt that date as early as 1,500 BC.
Star - wikipedia.org/wiki/Star, Brunei
October 2007 - references :
Star - Wikipedia, Brunei Darussalam - তারা
উইকিপিডিয়া, মুক্ত বিশ্বকোষ থেকে
(নক্ষত্র (তারা) থেকে ঘুরে এসেছে)
প্রতিটি সংস্কৃতিতেই তারা বিশেষ গুরুত্ব বহন করতো। ধর্ম চর্চায় এর ব্যবহার ছিল
সবচেয়ে বেশী। এছাড়া তারার মাধ্যমে নাবিকরা দিক নির্ণয় করতো এবং ঋতুর সাথে এর
সম্পর্কটিও মানুষ অনেক আগে বুঝতে পেরেছিল। প্রাচীন জ্যোতির্বিদরা অনেকেই বিশ্বাস
করতেন, তারা স্বর্গীয় গোলকে নির্দিষ্ট স্থানে আবদ্ধ আছে এবং এরা অপরিবর্তনীয়।
চলতি প্রথা অনুযায়ী তারা তারাগুলোকে কিছু তারামণ্ডলে ভাগ করেছিলেন এবং এই
মণ্ডলগুলোর মাধ্যমে সূর্যের অনুমিত অবস্থান ও গ্রহের গতি সম্বন্ধে ধারণা লাভ
করতেন। তারার পটভূমিতে তথা দিগন্তে সূর্যের গতিকে ব্যবহার করে পঞ্জিকা তৈরী করা
হতো যা কৃষিকাজে বিশেষ কাজে আসতো। বর্তমানে পৃথিবীর সবচেয়ে বেশী ব্যবহৃত পঞ্জিকা
জর্জীয় পঞ্জিকা সৌরকেন্দ্রিক। সূর্যের সাপেক্ষে পৃথিবীর ঘূর্ণন অক্ষের কোণগুলোর
মাধ্যমে এই পঞ্জিকা নির্মিত হয়।
জানা মতে সঠিকভাবে প্রস্তুতকৃত প্রাচীনতম পঞ্জিকা নির্মাণ করেছিল প্রাচীন
মিশরীয়রা, ১,৫৩৪ খ্রিস্টপূর্বাব্দে। ইসলামী জ্যোতির্বজ্ঞানীরা অনেক তারার আরবী
নাম দিয়েছিলেন যার অনেকগুলো এখনও ব্যবহৃত হয়। এছাড়া তারা তারার অবস্থান
নির্ণয়ের জন্য প্রচুর জ্যোতির্বৈজ্ঞানিক যন্ত্র নির্মাণ করেছিলেন। একাদশ শতাব্দীতে
আবু রাইহান আল-বিরুনি আকাশগঙ্গা ছায়াপথকে বিপুল সংখ্যক ভগ্নাংশের সমন্বয়ে গঠিত
বলে ব্যাখ্যা করেন। এর ভগ্নাংশগুলোর নীহারিকময় তারার মত ধর্ম রয়েছে বলেও তিনি
উল্লেখ করেন। ১০১৯ সালের এক চন্দ্র গ্রহণের সময় তিনি বিভিন্ন তারার অক্ষাংশও
তারাকে স্বর্গীয় অপরিবর্তনীয় বস্তুরূপে কল্পনা করলেও চৈনিক জ্যোতির্বিদরা বুঝতে
পেরেছিলেন, নতুন তারার উদ্ভব হতে পারে।
Online Etymology Dictionary. 2007-09-21 তারিখে সংগৃহীত।
2. George Forbes (1909).
History of Astronomy
(Free e-book from Project Gutenberg), London: Watts & Co..
3. von Spaeth, Ove (2000). "Dating
the Oldest Egyptian Star Map". Centaurus International Magazine of
the History of Mathematics, Science and Technology, 42 (3): 159-179.
Retrieved on 2007-10-21.
4. Zahoor, A. (1997).
Al-Biruni. Hasanuddin University. 2007-10-21 তারিখে
সংগৃহীত। 5. D.H. Clark, F. R. Stephenson (1981-06-29). "The
Historical Supernovae". Supernovae: A survey of current research;
Proceedings of the Advanced Study Institute: 355–370, Cambridge, England:
Dordrecht, D. Reidel Publishing Co.. Retrieved on 2006-09-24.
Jamerah - Empowerment through Information,
February 2008 -
The Royal Astrologers
Welcome to Jamara. Empowerment through Information.
Mark Taylor Harbin has a
Bachelor of Arts in International Relations & Spanish and has a Masters degree
in Contracts Management. He is an educated Occupational Health, Safety & Quality
Advisor & Auditor since 1987.
Throughout life we all
have experienced times that might have turned out better if only we had been
more informed. Jamerah can provide this for you. You can choose your method. You
can meet yourself through astrology, numerology or feng shui. These techniques
passed down through the centuries are available for progress in your life.
Concerning Western Astrology, - Astrology Articles:
"Regents, Admirals - and the Royal Astrologers", written by
"... All through history,
in fact all the way up till the 19th century, astrology might be as much
involved in politics as for instance financial regards - and it was also a very
widespread and natural factor in philosophy of life and in the normal day, e.g.
like religion is. Astrology is hardly known in history books - this equals to
for instance avoiding mentioning of large parts of the Catholic Church era in
Cultural History. ..."
- Read the whole Ove von Spaeth-article here:
"Regents, Admirals - and the Royal Astrologers" :
adsabs.harvard.edu, Bojan Novakovic, (Serbia), 8 January 2008 -
Senenmut - an Ancient Egyptian Astronomer
"... The map on the
southern panel proves to reflect a special of planets around the longitude of
Sirius. The four planets Jupiter, Saturn, Mercury and Venus are relatively
easily recognizable. The planet Mars is not included in the actual grouping and
at first sight seems to be missing in the map. However, Mars is also pictured in
the Senenmut map, but is represented by an empty boat in the west. This seems to
refer to the fact that Mars was retrograde so that in this backward movement
(well-known phenomenon to the Egyptians) the Mars position was perhaps not
considered to be "concrete". Using these facts, Egyptologists were able to date
that this particular configuration occured in the sky in 1534 BC (von
Spaeth 2000)*. ..."
*(Von Spaeth 2000) von Spaeth, O.,
2000 Centaurus, 42, pp. 159-179.
Boran Novakovic: "Senenmut: An Ancient Egyptian Astronomer", astro-ph, 8
- to appear in
Publication of Astronomical Observatory of Belgrade (supported by Ministry
of Science of Serbia)
The celestial phenomenon have always been a source of wonder and interest to
people, even as long ago as the ancient Egyptians. While the ancient Egyptians
did not know all the things about astronomy that we do now, they had a good
understanding of the some celestial phenomenon. The achievements in astronomy of
ancient Egyptians are relatively well known, but we know very little about the
people who made these achievements. The goal of this paper is to bring some
light on the life of Senenmut, the chief architect and astronomer during the
reign of Queen Hatshepsut.
Title: Senenmut: An
Ancient Egyptian Astronomer.
Authors: Novakovic, Bojan
Publication: eprint arXiv:0801.1331 -
Publication Date: 01/2008 -
Comment: to appear in Publication of Astronomical Observatory of
Bibliographic Code: 2008arXiv0801.1331N
wikipedia.org - 1 December
2009 - info:
Geschichte der Astronomie
Die Geschichte der Astronomie umfasst zeitlich die gesamte Kulturgeschichte
Die Astronomie wandelte
sich von der bloßen Kunde der Beobachtung des Sternenhimmels und seiner Zyklen
über die klassisch-geometrische Astronomie, deren älteste Teilgebiete die
Positionsastronomie und Ephemeridenrechnung sind, bis hin zur modernen
Die Astronomie bestimmt
das Selbstbild des Menschen und seine Auffassung von seiner Stellung im
Universum mit, heutzutage vor allem durch die Diskussionen über die Entstehung
des Universums und die Suche nach bewohnbaren Planeten und Leben außerhalb des
Sonnensystems der Erde.
Millennium Mathematics Project, Cambridge - 1
2007 - edu:
Early Astronomy and Beginnings of Math Science
University of Cambridge. All
rights reserved. -
NRICH is part of the family of activities in the Millennium Mathematics
Project, which also includes the Plus and Motivate sites. - email:
Early Astronomy and the Beginnings of a Mathematical Science
The History of Trigonometry - Part 1
The Egyptians divided the 360 degrees of the ecliptic into 36 sections of 10
degrees each. [see Note 1 below]. This division was known before 2300 BCE. Each
ten degree section (called a decan from the Greek for ten) contained a
constellation of stars lined up along the ecliptic. Since the Earth makes a full
rotation in 24 hours, the stars in a new decan will rise above the horizon about
every 40 minutes. The system of decans was used for determining the night hours
and the seasons.
- This site shows some of the oldest star diagrams from prehistoric times:
- This is a site on Egyptian Astronomy:
- Here you can find the 'Decan' chart: http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut1-mapdate_en.asp
Notes. 1. The
radius of the circle depends on the time of year. The truest E - W direction
will be achieved by marking the end of the shadow at sunrise and sunset
(possibly at the equinoxes). As long as the times of marking the shadow after
sunrise and before sunset are the same, the true E - W direction could still be
found. In the surviving documents, there are no diagrams, and the instructions
are somewhat ambiguous. These ancient people knew that the diagonal of any
rectangle was the square root of the square on the hypotenuse of a right
triangle by at least 2,000 BCE. At that time, the square root of the square on
the hypotenuse was conceived of as the length of a rope i.e. the side of the
square, not a numerical result, as we think of it today.
Thunderbolts Forum. -
For discussion of Electric Universe and Plasma Cosmology. -
- Hi Nick, - Re Thuban
as Pole Star. - I'm not overly concerned as to whether it was or it wasn't. My
confusion was due to your statement that it wasn't and the grounds upon which
you made the statement. For instance are you positive that the Chinese didn't
use it? Have you considered that an ancient star map may look nothing like a
modern star map. What about the astronomical information embedded in The Iliad
and the Bible, and presumably the Vedic literature? Have you eliminated all
those? Is this your opinion or Velikovsky's?
Re the alignment of
ancient buildings. The ancients went to great lengths to align their buildings.
As I've stated elsewhere, the choices of constellations, asterisms and
individual stars were not arbitrary, they were part and parcel of the
Some Egyptian temples
have been constructed in a way connecting to the star of Sirius when - each year
in the summer after a period of invisibility of 70 days - it rose together with
the sun (i.e. Sirius's Heliacal rising) that the light would travel down the
temples' main corridor. In that moment, Sirius would place its light at the
altar in the innermost sanctum of the temple.
In a similar way later in
Greek temples - for instance in the very Parthenon - being constructed with the
direction to the beams of the Stars of the Pleiades. Thus, when the temples were
oriented geographically to receive these beams of light into the inner sanctums,
the light-rays were described in a symbolic way as being "transformed into seven
women", i.e. "The Seven Sisters", The Pleiades:
Re the tomb of Senmut.
Velikovsky theorised wrongly. Scholarship has moved on since Velikovsky. Read
the above linked article in its entirety, it's long but worth it. There is a
navigation menu at the foot of the above link. The article also disagrees with
you and the Saturn theorists about the North celestial pole.
Your references to Plato,
Heredotus et al about the planet flipping have no real bearing on precession
because a) they may have happened in a previous cycle and b) the would still
have been precession if the criteria for precessing were there; the zodiacal
constellations would have been different (to the residents of the former
northern hemisphere) but the precessing would still have happened.
As to the question of
knowledge of precession prior to Hipparchus, isn't that the central topic of
Hamlet's Mill? - The problem Velikovsky and the Saturn theorists have is that
they subscribe to Darwinian evolution and therefore, despite protestations to
the contrary, view ancients as simple, primitives who couldn't possibly be
smarter than moderns. And they all subscribe to the Jungian collective amnesia
nonsense despite not having a shred of evidence that there is any such thing as
collective amnesia let alone that people from thousands of years ago had it and
passed it down to their offspring.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity. Tao Te Ching, no.53.
Titre du document:
Dating the Oldest Egyptian star map = La datation de la plus ancienne carte des
étoiles égyptienne. - Revue / Journal Title: Centaurus
Auteur(s) / Author(s):
OVE VON SPAETH (1) ; Affiliation(s) du ou des auteurs / Author(s) Affiliation(s):
(1) Zenith I.C., P.O. Box 1096, 1009 Copenhagen, DANEMARK
Source / Source:
Centaurus 2000, vol. 42, no3, pp. 159-179 (1 p.1/4). - ISSN 0008-8994
Editeur / Publisher: Blackwell, Oxford, ROYAUME-UNI (1950) (Revue). Langue / Language: Anglais. - English Keywords: Egypt ; Star ; Astronomy ; Zodiac ; Antiquity-16 ;
Egipto ; Estrella ; AstronomÍa ; Zodiaco ; Antigüedad-s. 16 ;
Localisation / Location:
INIST-CNRS, Cote INIST : 23143, 35400009116675.0010
INIST-CNRS. All rights reserved. Toute reproduction ou diffusion
même partielle, par quelque procédé ou sur tout support que ce soit, ne pourra
être faite sans l'accord préalable écrit de l'INIST-CNRS. Nº
notice refdoc (ud4): 1146404
Newsgroup Gateway, NTTP.it -
2009 - discussioni:
Messaggi: n/a - Nella tomba di Senmut - Bisogna dire che tutto questo e'
Hatshepsut (la donna che divenne faraone). Un pannello sul soffitto mostra la
sfera celeste con "un orientamento invertito" ovvero il cielo del sud. "Una caratteristica del soffitto di Senmut è l'orientamento astronomicamente
discutibile del pannello meridionale". Il centro di questo pannello è occupata
dal gruppo del Orione-Sirio, in cui Orione compare ad ovest di Sirio anziché ad
est. "Con l'orientamento invertito del pannello del sud, Orione, la
costellazione più cospicua del cielo del sud, sembra muoversi verso l'est, cioè,
nel senso errato".
Particolare della volta
della tomba di Senmut. -
Stjärna. - Observationshistoria. - Människan har sett upp mot stjärnorna
sedan civilisationens gryning, sannolikt ännu längre. Strävan efter kunskap har
alltid motiverat studier av himlafenomen både för religiösa och ceremoniella
syften såväl som för
navigation. Med hjälp av den mänskliga fantasin föddes idén med
vilka ofta var sammanflätade med den lokala religionen. Systemet med
stjärnbilder förbättrades och vidareutvecklades under
andra årtusendet f.Kr. av
som gav de nuvarande stjärnbilderna i
namn. De skapade även astronomiska kalendrar som fokuserade på fenomen som kunde
användas för att följa årstiderna.
Även civilisationen i
Egypten innehade framstående kunskaper inom astronomi och astrologi. Detta
bevisas bland annat av att världens äldsta bevarade och exakt daterade (1534
stjärnkarta hittats i närheten av
# Dating Egypt's oldest star map
Greetings all, - Brad Sparks, in a March 12,2007 thread, here, entitled
'Babylonian Chronology", said this: - "Moreover, as with other claims of
"astronomical fixing" of ancient chronology the dates were originally found by
NON-astronomers publishing in non-astronomical journals long before other
thousands of tablets were uncovered or studied."
Please see the following
article: - "Dating Egypt's oldest star map" "New Discovery In the World's Oldest
There is a 3500 year old
Egyptian star map on the tomb of the great Senmut (Senenmut) ---- a star map
containing a planetary and star road map in Involving a solar eclipse. Such an
alignment, the article argues, can be used for dating purposes.
I would like to direct
Brad and everyone to a section of this website, "Evaluations, response,
reviews", which has snippets from about 40 different reviewers, many of which
"This revelation is the
result of investigations by Danish researcher Ove von Spaeth, and is published
in July-August 2000 in vol. 42 of the international journal of the history of
science, "Centaurus". - i.e: "Centaurus International Magazine of the History of
Mathematics, Science, and Technology" 42;3, 2000, pp.159-179.
The website says only
that this solar eclipse occurred in May, 1534 BC ( "-1533" astronomical time). I
found the exact date of this solar eclipse, using the 'computer program' on the
online planetarium at:
www.skyviewcafe.com , on May 21, -1533 (1534 BC).
The star map has, in this
order : Venus, Mercury, Saturn, Jupiter, Sirius (a star in Canis Major),
Sun&Moon Solar eclipse in Orion, and Mars. - What do you all think?
FWIW, on May 20 (or 21st
(depending on your location on the earth), 1534 BC; Mercury, Jupiter and Venus are in the constellation Gemini, Sun&Moon are in Orion's hand. Saturn is in
Taurus. Mars is in Capricornus.
They appear in that order
along the ecliptic (the planetary 'road'). The star 'Sirius', though well off
the road, would appear to fit between 'Jupiter' and the 'Sun&Moon'.
At the time of the above
eclipse, you could not see all of the above planets. There was a point in that
day where you could perhaps see all of them, however, Mars was on one horizon
and the others were on the other.
The critics, of
Spaeth, argue that while there was a solar eclipse in some parts of the world on
May 1534 BC; there was no such eclipse in Egypt. So, I started looking for an
eclipse, visible from Cairo Egypt. The following is a list of eclipses or
'close' ellipses that I found, which were visible in Egypt: July 31, -1564;
May 30, -1561; Nov 24, -1561; Sept 11 -1557; Nov 3, -1551;
Apr 29, -1550; Feb 15, -1546; April 20, -1541; Mar 29, -1539;
Jan 26, -1536; July 11, -1535; Nov 25, -1534;
May 9th, 1533 BC at
17:55pm : Jupiter in Cancer; Mars and Mercury in Gemini; Saturn was
in Orion's hand; Venus was NOT visible during any portion of the eclipse,
but it was
close by, near Pisces.
April 20, 1523 BC 9:48am
: an 'almost' total solar eclipse visible from Cairo, Egypt.
Some other dates which might be worth looking into.... August 2, -1518;
July 22, -1517; May 20, -1514; Sept 12 -1511; Sept 2, -1510;
It is my GUESS that this
is NOT a snapshot of the planets during the time of the eclipse. IOW, not all of
the planets were visible during the eclipse or subsequent night. No doubt, some
of them (maybe most of them) were visible during the eclipse.
But say, you were to look
at the sky "map", throughout the eclipse, and throughout the nite. And image the
planetary path, i.e. ecliptic through the sky as being like a straight road on
the map. Imagine the planets are like towns in a certain country, the countries,
of which are akin to the constellations. You would see that the Venus is on one
side of the map, and Mars on the other. As you scanned this "road map" from left
to right, you would see the above planets, star, and SUN&MOON in the order given
above. - I'll take some time to verify that above GUESS. Toby, -
"zoe_lithoi" <zoe_lithoi@...> - Jan 21, 2008, 6:12 pm -
_ _ _ # Re: Dating Egypt's oldest star
After a quick look I did not see how a solar eclipse in May 1534 BC fits with a
planetary conjunction of Feb-March 1537 BC or how they are related.
Ove von Spaeth is not an
astronomer, but is an historical writer and researcher. I didn't see any
astronomers conducting a thorough astronomical investigation of von Spaeth's
Astronomers do not use
Gregorian proleptic dates because of an ambiguity in back calculating what Pope
Gregory's commission intended or actually decided, so astronomers use Julian
calendar days proleptically.
Fundamentally it is at
present impossible to determine whether a solar eclipse path passed over Egypt
in 1534 BC or any other dates in the mid-2nd millennium BC because the Delta-T
correction for cumulative and unpredictable changes in the slowing of earth's
rotation cannot be retrocalculated accurately enough to do so. Only by
establishing a century-by-century record of accurate eclipse observations to the
present can the Delta-T factor be determined for the era around 1500 BC, and no
such record is currently available from around 1500 BC forward. Brad,
rb47x@... - Jan 23, 2008, 3:53 am -
_ _ _
# Re: Dating Egypt's oldest star
Brad wrote: - "Only by establishing a century-by-century record of
accurate eclipse observations to the present can the Delta-T factor be
determined for the era around 1500 BC, and no such record is currently
available from around 1500 BC forward."
Brad, perhaps you are not familiar with Morrison and Stephenson's recent
article, published in 2004. - "Morrison, L.V. & Stephenson, F.R., "Historical
Values of the Earth�s Clock Error Delta T and the Calculation of
Eclipses", Journal for the History of Astronomy, Vol. 35 Part 3, August 2004,
No. 120 (2004), pages 327�336." Nasa recognizes them as astronomers....
how about you?
The Nasa website says:
"Values of delta T before AD 1600 pre-date the telescope and are based on
historic records of naked eye observations of eclipses and occultations. A
number of researchers have made significant contributions in this area. In
particular, Morrison and Stephenson (2004) have fit hundreds of records with
simple polynomials to achieve a best fit for describing the value of ΔT
from 700 BCE to 1600 CE.
An abbreviated table of
their results follows:.... Values for ΔT in the past and future are
uncertain but may be approximated by extrapolating from known values. However,
the further into the past or future that one extrapolates, the greater the
uncertainty in ΔT. "
I wanted to use some Nasa data to test out the
online planetarium at www.skyviewcafe.com.
I chose one of the most famous lunar eclipses of all time, namely: Eclipse
before Arbela battle of Alexander the Great. 2 Greek writers write of this
battle: Arrian and Diodorus. One reason this eclipse is so famous, is that some
'Chaldean' astronomers predicted it would happen, and when their prediction came
true Alexander the Great (who won the battle), translated their work.
This eclipse is mentioned
in the Astronomical Diaries. (lots of tablets containing astrological data from
Babylon, the oldest tablet dates back to 652/651;
the youngest to 61/60
BCE.). It says: " Month Ulûlu, day 13: There was a lunar eclipse. It was
completely covered at the moment when Jupiter set and Saturn rose. [...] During
totality the west wind blew, during clearing the east wind. During the eclipse,
deaths and plague occurred."
Nasa says that this
eclipse occured on this date: -0330 Sep 20 ( 331 Sep 20 BCE). And sure
enough, it shows up on that date on the online planetarium. I wanted to check
out an older eclipse mentioned on Nasa's website. They have a link to the MSU
Physics department: Ancient and Early Medieval Eclipses in European
The date I chose was
this: "-647, Apr. 6 ; The solar eclipse observed by the poet
Archilochus". - And sure enough, it shows up on that date on the online
planetarium as well.
The oldest date is:
"-1177 Apr 16? Prophecy in Odyssey, in which some see a description
of an eclipse"; And once again, a solar eclipse shows up on that date on the
online planetarium as well. - There are some older, historical famous solar
eclipses. which I could check out as well.
This "delta T" problem,
Brad speaks of, doesn't seem to be that big of deal to me. Toby, -
"zoe_lithoi" <zoe_lithoi@...> - Jan 24, 2008, 10:01 am -
_ _ _
# Re: Dating Egypt's oldest star
Hello, Brad -- I am not deep in this. But here is a possible method. It is
generally agreed that a notable solar eclipse passed over the middle east on
June 15, 763 BC, I believe that was the eclipse predicted in Amos 8:9. If we
take the mention of noon in that text as the time the eclipse would be seen from
Samaria -- ok, it may not be precisely high noon, but assume noon for
calculations -- perhaps this would give a basis for computing the slowing in the
earth's rotation from then to now. That is a period of 2771 years.
One could project
backward from there supposing the average would be similar. I am not sure how
much precision would be necessary to improve current estimates. So that if the
eclipse was visible in a range of say half an hour before or after theoretical
noon, whether this would be sufficient for progress here. -- David, -
DavRice@... davricey - Jan 24, 2008, 10:01 am - http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancient_chronology/message/2653
_ _ _
# Re: Dating Egypt's oldest star
Hi David, - I think what you are suggesting is that if we take a dubious alleged
eclipse such as 763 BC and assume it is correct can we then use it to correct
the earth's rotation cumulative Delta-T correction curve for other eclipses
before and after. My position is that one cannot jump from the ca. 1600 AD
beginning of modern astronomy back to 763 BC without a century by century
accurate record of Delta-T values from recorded eclipses or other observations
that can give a presumably accurate Delta-T.
Even a single eclipse is
not a good enough data point per century -- after all it is just one data point
and it could be completely wrong. Now if the Delta-T curve was cooperative and
predictable and single data points fit the curve nicely then we wouldn't have a
problem. But we do. Serious problems.
Astronomers do not
generally agree that the solar eclipse of 763 BC passed over Nineveh where it
was allegedly recorded. If you'll look at Toby's posting you'll notice that
astronomer F. Richard Stephenson's Delta-T corrections stop at 700 BC and do not
include the 763 BC eclipse as a corrective data point -- because Stephenson does
not regard 763 BC as reliable data.
If you look at Fred
Espenak's NASA website of historical eclipses you'll notice wide discrepancies
in Delta-T of over 2,000 seconds (over 1/2 hour) between his own maps and tables
for the same eclipses!
Espenak's NASA table for
763 BC was deliberately forced to fit Nineveh, which required a Delta-T of about
22,300 secs, whereas his map was plotted with Delta-T of about 19,800 secs, a
change he introduced without explanation of over 2,500 seconds (over 40 minutes
or about 600 miles shifted in longitude). His map has the path of totality pass
some 100 miles north of Nineveh, completely missing Assyria. By changing the
Delta-T he could force it to pass over Nineveh, and that is what he does in his
As for your proposal: The
NASA table for 763 BC has the closest part (southern limit) of the eclipse path
passing north of Sidon in Phoenicia about 100 miles away from Samaria at about 9
AM local time. It is nowhere near 12 Noon local time. It is physically
impossible to get that eclipse path over Samaria in northern Israel at a local
time of about 12 Noon. The absolute time of the eclipse is known accurately
(thus also the local time in ancient Israel), since the moon's orbit is
predictable and well-behaved, it is the amount of rotation of the earth
underneath the moon's shadow that is erratic and unpredictable, so the Delta-T
cannot help you.
Let me illustrate the
enormous degree of uncertainty and unpredictability involved here. The Delta-T
at around the time of Christ was about 9,000 to 10,000 secs (check the NASA maps
and compare with the NASA tables). The broad range of Delta-T values for 763 BC,
from 19,800 to 22,300 secs, means that there was roughly an average change in
Delta-T of about 1300 to 1800 secs per century.
If we use the wide range
of 1300-1800 secs per century change in Delta-T to project backwards to
retrocalculate eclipses in the 1500's BC, then the Delta-T in the 1500's BC
could be anywhere from about 30,000 to 34,000 secs (or when one uses a curve
instead of a straight line, then about 40,000 to 45,000 secs).
Which is the correct
Delta-T for the 1500's BC? Is it 30,000 or 45,000 or somewhere in between? The
difference is over 4 hours or more than 60 degrees of longitude in earth
rotation. Most eclipse paths would shift away so far that no eclipse would be
seen at all at a given favorite site (only on paths that extend due west-east
and are precisely centered might the path still pass over a certain site with a
60-degree shift, but most paths of interest are SW-NE or NW-SE not due W-E). Do
you see the problem?
Amateurs who do not grasp
the incorrigible astronomical issues involved can just gloss right over all
this, oblivious to scientific facts. I reiterate that there has NEVER been a
peer-reviewed professional astronomer investigation of the 763 BC eclipse in a
peer-reviewed ASTRONOMICAL (NOT Ancient Near Eastern studies!!) publication. The
763 BC alleged eclipse has never survived peer review by astronomers. The
alleged Nineveh eclipse was fabricated by "minimalist" Assyriologists in the
1860's who used it as a weapon to win a battle against the more pro-Biblical
"maximalist" Assyriologists arguing over an approximately 42-year difference in
Biblical and Assyrian chronology (the "maximalists" defended a Biblical
chronology date around ca. 805 BC and there is a candidate eclipse in 809 BC).
There were no astronomers
involved when the 763 BC eclipse was dogmatically asserted for the first time,
in 1867, and it was not a product of professional astronomer investigation. How
can an eclipse asserted by non-astronomers in 1867 still be accurate in 2007
when the unpredictable changing earth's rotation was not even known until 1939?
Were the Assyriologists of 1867 psychic, or were they astronomical geniuses a
century ahead of their time??? Brad, -
rb47x@... rb47x - Jan 24, 2008, 10:00 am -
_ _ _
# Re: Dating Egypt's oldest star
Toby wrote: - I was checking that the eclipses, on the computer
program occurred on the dates NASA said they should.
It is a circular argument to express satisfaction that these two eclipses
occur on the expected date using the computer program; as the deltaT curve built
into the program will have been determined using these eclipses. So all your
checking is the programming! laurence, -
"laurence dixon" <lcwdixon@...> lcwdixon - Jan 25, 2008, 5:40 am - http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ancient_chronology/message/2661
laurence wrote: - It is a circular argument to express satisfaction
that these two eclipses occur on the expected date using the computer
program; as the deltaT curve built into the program will have been
determined using these eclipses. So all your checking is the
Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas
compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be
permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they
are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what
ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?
Moderators: arc-us, MGmirkin
The Milky Way http://www.moses-egypt.net/star-map/senmut5-world-axis_en.asp
(Excerpts of the Ove von
Spaeth texts and findings:)
From the Earth we can see
our own galaxy almost like the slim area of a diametrical cut of a dish, the
very cut as the nesau - the Egyptian expression for the 'Milky Way' -
with its light surrounding the cosmic World-axis crossing over the sky from the
south to the north.
The light of the universe
has a special quality for the life and this light is being "amplified" when
passing through a galaxy. This is what happens - also when the light is passing
diametrical via our galaxy outside through its curved rim and, as seen from the
Earth, beaming out from the long narrow surface which appears as "the cut", i.e.
the bright ribbon-like Milky Way, which in mythology was perceived as the
informative and "nourishing" World-tree of Life.
Likewise, in ancient
cultures people could in their own way perceive the Milky Way as the true,
enlightening life-supporter in the sky. From the cosmos it is transmitting -
according to near future science - the radiation's special bio-energetic light
Such light, the cosmic
all-penetrating radiation light, is forming superstring-like connection and
coherence of the universe.
self-organizing intelligently structured exuding its qualities through our
galaxy, was seen as a tool for creating - filling the universe by being the
formative as well as informative medium. The universal light itself exists as
super-information that never goes away or dissolves (but may vary in levels of
appearances); the consistency of such facts enters into the coherence of modern
astronomy and quantum physics/mechanics.
For instance, the ability
of transporting data, pictures, and music through light in optic fibre cables -
is today a well-known principle. However, far beyond such limited, 'earthly'
function the power of the cosmos light is everywhere.
About "in the beginning"
the ancient Egyptian cosmology account mentions "... the first beams of light
that lit up the world ..." - and the Bible's Book of Genesis, 1:3, states
conjuringly: "... and then there was light ...". The two American research
engineers and Nobel Prize recipients, Arno A. Penzias and Robert W. Wilson,
found in 1965 the first physical proofs ("the sound of Big Bang") to the
hypothesis earlier presented by Pyotr Kapitsa and especially by George Gamow.
Penzias and Wilson showed that "light is the origin of the universe" ...
"suddenly the universe arranged itself in order and became transparent".
(>>> Continue here:
A special treasure of knowledge and wisdom
of Greece, Rome, and the Renaissance had originated in Ancient Egypt -
and was here known to connect also with the historical Moses' dramatic
fate and mystery.
Ove von Spaeth has
written an intriguing, new-orientating work presenting this still
influential background of our civilization. • His interdisciplinary
research on history, archaeology, and anthropology goes deeply into
Egyptian tradition, history of religion, initiation cults, star-knowledge,
and mythology - relating to biblical studies, the Rabbinical Writings,
and the authors of Antiquity. • Each volume offers unique insights not
Special information is
presented by clicking on the individual cover illustrations: